Model transitions but expects to carry on earning as much as pre transition.

[Rainbowshit]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12890405/Fashion-model-Frances-Coombe-sues-agency-civil-rights-violations-claiming-career-destroyed-came-transgender-told-insufficiently-masculine-work-man.html

they always look so unwell after transitioning.

She destroyed her own career. Did she really expect to just switch to male modelling? 🙈

I looked on her new agency's website, they had this photo of her (although full-length, I've cropped it).

She still looks quite androgynous, but - female-androgynous, IYKWIM? I wouldnever mistake her for a man. At most, a young-teen boy.

Men’s clothes simply wouldn’t fit - the cut would be wrong on a female body. And at a very basic level without considering anything else about the look, the clothes have to fit if they are to look good in order to sell them.

Yeah, there might be some niche markets out there for a female model selling nonbinary clothes, but there are agencies who specialise in different looks. I am guessing this agency marketed themselves as a reliable place for mainstream runway models and their clients would appreciate knowing they would be sent the sort of models they are looking for.

'Top officers' at the company told Coombe he had to 'appear more masculine' which the model says 'imposed a restriction on his work based on gender stereotypes'.

I can't even with the irony and hypocricy here.

I don't want to wear dresses, but I reject gender stereotypes.

Okie dokie

..

Unreasonable to be dropped suddenly by an agency?

Again, realism here. If you're employed in a dance company for example and your weight shifts more than it was when you were employed, you might get a warning and a deadline for getting it back to an agreed point. But transitioning is totally different isn't it?

This is a model who chose to radically change their appearance and the kind of jobs they wished to work on. Good luck to them, I hope they find those jobs. But it seems clear that this is radically different to the appearance and jobs that this agency had taken them on to market, and could supply to them.

I'm not sure whether this is a problem understanding the realities of working for a living in these fields, or a problem that the agency didn't put other interests and considerations aside and focus on the trans person's positive experience? When someone buys a model's time and work from an agency it's to create a sold product. It's not about the experience and wishes of the model.

I looked at that catwalk show, all the models were women, it’s a womenswear show by a designer who only makes clothes for women.

All the models are listed here: https://models.com/work/prabal-gurung-prabal-gurung-ss-24-show/2033833

This is the designer: https://prabalgurung.com/

So the new agency also books Coombe for womenswear jobs.

I wonder if work started to dry up as they hit 30 anyways. The modelling industry is awful as we all know, also runway work is far less lucrative and more gruelling than adverts etc, Coombs was probably sick of it.

Another harsh fact is than some people look good when transitioned, and some don't. The person who plays Sophia from orange is the new black is someone I would point out as having a good look. Can't think of any transmen off the top of my head. This is an industry based on looks ffs !

But it's not, is it? If a doctor gets a silly haircut and changes pronouns they're still medically qualified.

If they claimed to have changed sex, deny sex is relevant in healthcare, or that it exists on a spectrum, then I would question whether they are still qualified to be a doctor.

I'm sorry but the person in the video on Coombs' model page is outright ugly to me. I disagree with most that Coombs looked well in their before photos, but at least Coombs didn't look outright ugly then 😳

(I hate that I'm passing derogatory comment on anybody's looks, but since modelling is a looks based game...)

"She still looks quite androgynous, but - female-androgynous, IYKWIM? I wouldnever mistake her for a man. At most, a young-teen boy."

Definitely would not mistake them for a male, or a green boy.

That does look much better than the portfolio pictures, which with the packer in the pants are frankly weird, but wonder if there was a bit of a tantrum over having to wear "women's clothes".

The female clothes bit must be in reference to a go see to meet the potential client after they've liked a models portfolio. Apparently they need to wear simple clothes like jeans and a t-shirt, and not too much hair and makeup so they are seen as a blank canvas. So if a person was presenting as a male while trying to book a female job this would make it harder for the client to visualize them in the job.

Eh, whether they're fit to be a doctor is a whole other question. You gain a medical qualification, you're a doctor unless you're struck off.

If you're a model, you're a model purely because of how you look and until the precise second no-one wants to pay to look at you any more.

In general when I see very androgynous models they women and are selling stuff to women.

And the most varied models - the "diversity" models tend to be in make-up or things like that, and selling for a company that wants to make diversity its brand. Often there isn't really any clothing.

I don't think men look at male models that way. They actually want to see someone wearing the product. Someone good-looking, sure, but not weird or different for the sake of it.

It's like you read my mind.

Then you probably need to read the posts a bit more carefully, I think you've missed a bit.

The certificate is just a means to evidence that you qualify as holding sufficient knowledge and understanding. But what makes you qualified is the knowledge and understanding itself. If they had a traumatic brain injury and lost all their memory they would no longer qualify even if they still had their bit of paper. Just as my MIL passed her driving test and got a driving licence decades ago but now longer qualifies as fit to drive. Being fit to practice is an essential part of being qualified to practice.

The brainwashing has really got to this one.

I genuinely don't think anyone is being transphobic here. Fashion world has a long history of embracing androgyny and broad spectrum of gender fluidity.

Just look at the Rain Dove - they were born a female, but have uniquely androgynous facial features and are exceptionally tall, leading to many people assuming they are male (but Rain identifies as neither). Their looks turned out to be an advantage and they have walked in both male and female fashion shows.

I think the real issue here is that this particular model is, to put it bluntly, not a very good looking guy. So negative impact on work is not due to transphobia but rather the current beauty standards for men. If you want to work in an industry that is based on good looks you have to be good looking. A cisgender male model of similar build and facial features wouldn't go far either...

also, while the agency should have never misgendered him, is it really that surprising that fashion industry would end employment if their model's looks changed significantly? this is the same industry that fires people for weight fluctuations

If Mark Renton was the look modelling agencies wanted, Trainspotting wouldn’t have ended like it did.

There are a handful of runway models who have transitioned the other way, most seem to have starting modelling after transition but Andreja Pejic transitioned mid career all the way back in 2013

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreja_Pejić

https://models.com/models/andrej-pejic

Unlike Coombe tho, Pejic was always androgynous in appearance and modelled both menswear and womenswear pre transition so the industry was only required to make minimal changes to accommodate Pejic’s transition. Pejic basically stuck an A on the end of Andreja and started wearing more lipstick.

Pejic was also much younger than Coombe and it seems to me that the successful androgyne about town is always young, look at Bowie for a famous example of someone whose androgyny faded/was abandoned when he ceased to be youthful enough to carry it off (older Bowie was still good looking, off course, but not androgynous).

All of these are Prejic pre transition

(runway images are for Jean Paul Gaultier, print for Marc Jacobs)

Wasn't she the one who broke the terms of her contract? The agency employed her as a female model and she obtained work through them for 12 years. Then she transitioned and transformed into a physical look that has a great deal less demand and not what bookers are looking for. She only male she resembles is a skinny guy on drugs like Jesse in Breaking Bad, not healthy masculinity which is what is a desired in male models. She is in an extremely competitive industry and is completely unreasonable if she thinks the tastes of the designers and public have to change due to her own demands. Supply and demand doesn't work that way. She made herself unemployable, that isn't her agency's fault.

Agencies have two roles, they represent the model and they fulfill the requests of the clients.

If a client says they want a 6ft female with brown hair who is size 8 and must have no visible tattoos because the job is to model swimwear, the agency will send someone, often more than one person that fits those criteria for a casting.

An agency that sends someone who does not fit the criteria asked for won't be getting requests for long.

In addition to that agencies usually specialise in a particular type of modelling. In London there is an agency called 'Ugly model agency', they specialise in unconventional models, Coombs would fit in with the equivalent in Canada.

Well, it makes a change from a FTM being in the news for being pregnant, I guess.

I’m insufficiently beautiful to work as a female or male model. Who do I sue??!