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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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AlisonDonut · 22/12/2023 11:51

It is impossible to discuss the vulnerabilities that Brianna had that may have led to the identifying as the opposite sex, and contributed to the initial bullying and fear of being outside, because all you get is people screaming 'transphobia' and 'hatred of trans people'.

It really is pathetic. Grow the fuck up.

popebishop · 22/12/2023 11:52

Beowulfa · 22/12/2023 11:47

The most respectful tribute to Brianna would be to try and ensure that whatever the fuck happened that meant two remorseless teenagers could cheerfully joke about their list of murder victims cannot occur again.

I'm sparing a thought for the families of X and Y too. I genuinely can't imagine how you carry on from something like this.

Agreed. The fallout from this is immense.

Packituppackitinletmebegin · 22/12/2023 11:52

AlisonDonut · 22/12/2023 11:51

It is impossible to discuss the vulnerabilities that Brianna had that may have led to the identifying as the opposite sex, and contributed to the initial bullying and fear of being outside, because all you get is people screaming 'transphobia' and 'hatred of trans people'.

It really is pathetic. Grow the fuck up.

You're doing it as well, it's like you're not even aware how detached from basic social mores you are

nothingcomestonothing · 22/12/2023 11:53

loveanafter8 · 22/12/2023 11:42

to answer both you and @nothingcomestonothing, yes. I can absolutely respect peoples opinions without sharing them and I respect your opinions despite not agreeing myself.

However you’ve missed a glaring point here, respecting means that sometimes you have to pop your big girl pants on and use words that maybe you don’t agree with.

cause maybe you don’t agree that she was female, and your entitled feel that way, nor is it my job to change your mind if I disagree. However while you discuss this case, it’s (as I’ve mentioned on several occasions) basic human decency to give the victim the respect she deserves and to refer to her as who she is. A woman. Not someone who was confused about her ‘gender identity’ a woman who was murdered by two evil humans in the prime of her life.

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No. Lying isn't respectful. The child I knew who died from the effects of her eating disorder, believed she was fat. I don't think it's respectful to her to pretend to agree, that isn't 'who she was' and me lying about it helps no one. I feel the same about people who believe they are the opposite sex.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/12/2023 11:54

AlisonDonut · 22/12/2023 11:51

It is impossible to discuss the vulnerabilities that Brianna had that may have led to the identifying as the opposite sex, and contributed to the initial bullying and fear of being outside, because all you get is people screaming 'transphobia' and 'hatred of trans people'.

It really is pathetic. Grow the fuck up.

It truly is.

Packituppackitinletmebegin · 22/12/2023 11:54

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loveanafter8 · 22/12/2023 11:55

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Packituppackitinletmebegin · 22/12/2023 11:55

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Remember when i said the rhetoric/logic was the same as homophobes?

Bingo.

popebishop · 22/12/2023 11:56

We've had this conversation many a time, but being vulnerable is not the same as being 'mentally ill'. Again - does that really need explaining?

Packituppackitinletmebegin · 22/12/2023 11:57

popebishop · 22/12/2023 11:56

We've had this conversation many a time, but being vulnerable is not the same as being 'mentally ill'. Again - does that really need explaining?

"intrinsically disordered"

AlisonDonut · 22/12/2023 11:57

Packituppackitinletmebegin · 22/12/2023 11:52

You're doing it as well, it's like you're not even aware how detached from basic social mores you are

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For you, it might be more important to be socially accepted. Well done you.

For others, we might want to look at this through the lens of reality and what is actually going on, even if we upset those of you that are only about 'being kind'.

loveanafter8 · 22/12/2023 11:57

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/12/2023 11:57

Interesting how you attribute her being trans to being vulnerable. Almost like you believe it to be a form of mental illness.

Most trans activists see transgender people as particularly vulnerable as well, as we know. Stop twisting people's words and putting your own spin on them. We see you.

PaperWalkAndTalk · 22/12/2023 11:58

Again this thread has been hijacked by posters who are seeking offence from every post being made and are trying to practice compelled speech.

Ofcourseshecan · 22/12/2023 11:58

SaffronSpice:
It is exactly the serious case reviews of tragedies like this that lead to the safeguarding recommendations that Lord Cashman wanted to pushback against and others call ‘transphobic dog whistles’. It is these safeguards that they are looking to remove.

The perpetrators were dangerous fantasists caught up in a world of internet horror. They are also not the only teenagers who have set out to commit violence on another. Teachers keeping secrets, internet helplines directing children to unmoderated groups and estrangement from parents, calls to be ‘your whole self’ rather than recognising there must be limits and boundaries, RSE classes including harmful sexual practises, not recognising that some children can be easily led and coerced by so-called friends (including mate crime) are all safeguarding risks.
But instead today we have teaching unions telling teachers to ignore safeguarding guidance and keep secrets so children can be their whole self (like X and Y?).

This is worth repeating. Teenagers are easily influenced, and the Internet makes them available to every harmful influence in the world. Adult authorities must take responsibility for protecting them.

RedToothBrush · 22/12/2023 11:59

And now we are into the land of personal attacks.

There are people trying actively to get this thread shut down and close the conversation because they don't like the way it's going.

loveanafter8 · 22/12/2023 11:59

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/12/2023 11:57

Interesting how you attribute her being trans to being vulnerable. Almost like you believe it to be a form of mental illness.

Most trans activists see transgender people as particularly vulnerable as well, as we know. Stop twisting people's words and putting your own spin on them. We see you.

You see me, yet are blind to your own ignorance. How ironic.

AlisonDonut · 22/12/2023 11:59

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I used the situation of Brianns being petrified about going outside.

So yes, vulnerable.

It is well known that teens who are identifying as the opposite sex have comorbidities and other issues going on. But lets not look at those and just scream 'transphobe' all day long and pat ourselves on the back for being good little comrades.

Packituppackitinletmebegin · 22/12/2023 12:00

AlisonDonut · 22/12/2023 11:57

For you, it might be more important to be socially accepted. Well done you.

For others, we might want to look at this through the lens of reality and what is actually going on, even if we upset those of you that are only about 'being kind'.

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I think for the vast majority of people, being "socially accepted" is a very important thing!!!

loveanafter8 · 22/12/2023 12:00

RedToothBrush · 22/12/2023 11:59

And now we are into the land of personal attacks.

There are people trying actively to get this thread shut down and close the conversation because they don't like the way it's going.

or Perhaps you are the one who doesn’t like being called out on your disgusting behaviour towards a woman who was murdered.

RedToothBrush · 22/12/2023 12:01

PaperWalkAndTalk · 22/12/2023 11:58

Again this thread has been hijacked by posters who are seeking offence from every post being made and are trying to practice compelled speech.

Didn't see your post but yes.

If it's not trying to get the police involved, it's trying to throw the cliche gotchas out there and when that doesn't work it goes to personal attacks.

Over and over again.

Why can't we talk about this in an adult way in a democracy?

Packituppackitinletmebegin · 22/12/2023 12:02

AlisonDonut · 22/12/2023 11:59

I used the situation of Brianns being petrified about going outside.

So yes, vulnerable.

It is well known that teens who are identifying as the opposite sex have comorbidities and other issues going on. But lets not look at those and just scream 'transphobe' all day long and pat ourselves on the back for being good little comrades.

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Can't imagine why she wouldn't want to endure the bigotry she was undoubtedly subjected to both on and offline

loveanafter8 · 22/12/2023 12:02

RedToothBrush · 22/12/2023 12:01

Didn't see your post but yes.

If it's not trying to get the police involved, it's trying to throw the cliche gotchas out there and when that doesn't work it goes to personal attacks.

Over and over again.

Why can't we talk about this in an adult way in a democracy?

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I’m happy to discuss this in an adult way but sadly that means people have to be respectful and after reading these comments I just don’t think it’s possible.

AlisonDonut · 22/12/2023 12:03

Packituppackitinletmebegin · 22/12/2023 12:02

Can't imagine why she wouldn't want to endure the bigotry she was undoubtedly subjected to both on and offline

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As I said, impossible.

WickedSerious · 22/12/2023 12:04

Packituppackitinletmebegin · 22/12/2023 10:41

My "agenda" of not disputing Brianna's very existence, as some have done here, by way positing that she was incorrect about herself and that being trans was a mere "belief" she held, like flat eartherism

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In what way is refusing to use incorrect pronouns 'disputing someone's existence'?