Guilty verdict in Brianna Ghey case

[RoyalCorgi]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/20/brianna-ghey-found-guilty-murder

Not a surprise - it felt very clear-cut.

I can respect others beliefs without sharing them. Can you?

I think we know the answer to that @nothingcomestonothing

The thread much like the actual case has been overtaken by people with particular motivations. No doubt new users have been encouraged to come here with bad faith arguments from what has been posted on Twitter and now the Daily Mail (hello Daily Mail journalists).

Who knows, perhaps journalists are posting here to deliberately spice it up to generate a few more headlines?

It's ok, you're intrinsically wrong about yourself, you're inherently deluded but i respect you

It’s a common theme that comes up with school shootings in the US. What drove them to do it? What flags were missed? What triggered it? What underlying conditions were involved etc etc. Commonly the perpetrators are weird kids who made people uncomfortable but without forensic indications or enough to go on to warrant any particular action.

In my view the most useful action is engagement, as in keeping them engaged, busy, doing things, offline, no wallowing, dwelling, finding good common interests and so on. But that seems far too trivial to be the real answer, there must be something deeper required that needs greater understanding.

I've just watched Esther Ghey's video statement and I can't believe how much courage and grace she has shown.

Yes, I completely agree. Unimaginably awful.

Yes agree.

Agree with this. Brianna's murder wasn't the fault of the Tories, or feminists, or anyone really except the killers themselves.

Yep. There are huge questions to be asked aboutv what ignited and fuelled the clear desire to kill. As in the deleted thread, I find it astounding they had made no plans about how to "get away with it" (thankfully for those investigating it). How they envisaged the world and how it works must have been very unlike reality.

I can't even begin to comprehend how awful it's been

It'll be even worse when they see this thread and see how many of you seek to deny their daughter even a modicum of dignity and deceny

Yes @popebishop it all revolved around fantasies, then they meticulously planned (including going to the scene a few days before) and carried out a savage crime in broad daylight in a public dog walking spot, with no attempt to cover it up or have any sort of exit strategy. Really striking.

Nobody has claimed 'what they know about themselves is intrinsically wrong', point to the post saying that. None of us know what Brianna thought or believed, including you.

I've explained at length in the past the false equivalence of that argument on here.

I'm not going to do it again here.

to answer both you and @nothingcomestonothing, yes. I can absolutely respect peoples opinions without sharing them and I respect your opinions despite not agreeing myself.

However you’ve missed a glaring point here, respecting means that sometimes you have to pop your big girl pants on and use words that maybe you don’t agree with.

cause maybe you don’t agree that she was female, and your entitled feel that way, nor is it my job to change your mind if I disagree. However while you discuss this case, it’s (as I’ve mentioned on several occasions) basic human decency to give the victim the respect she deserves and to refer to her as who she is. A woman. Not someone who was confused about her ‘gender identity’ a woman who was murdered by two evil humans in the prime of her life.

And?
I disagree with you, it happens, deal with it (like a grown up).

There are ACEs - adverse childhood events, which in the past have been cited as events that can lead children to grow up to be adults who really struggle to function in society.

But there are also BCEs - benevolent childhood events which we do know go a long way to make up for ACEs. Enormously important.

That's the expensive bit no one wants to deal with.

You claim to be a self identified human being, it's your belief right?

Not casting any doubts or aspersions, but you believe yourself to be a person, am i correct?

From their texts, they seemed fairly bright - at least Girl X - by which I mean some degree of awareness. Did they want to be "notorious"? (And I'm hoping this doesn't become a thing, one of the benefits of not naming them, although they will be named at some point).

The don’t come with their own bias views unconscious or not the police and legal system is rife with this

They don’t appear to understand (or want to bother to try) statements made are hurtful and by being ambiguous creates more harm rather than appearing to be kinder

However you’ve missed a glaring point here, respecting means that sometimes you have to pop your big girl pants on and use words that maybe you don’t agree with.

cause maybe you don’t agree that she was female, and your entitled feel that way, nor is it my job to change your mind if I disagree. However while you discuss this case, it’s (as I’ve mentioned on several occasions) basic human decency to give the victim the respect she deserves and to refer to her as who she is. A woman. Not someone who was confused about her ‘gender identity’ a woman who was murdered by two evil humans in the prime of her life.

Stop trying to compel women's speech. I have been respectful throughout, I haven't used male pronouns at all, but I'm not going to have my speech compelled by you. I do not share your ideological belief that it's possible for a biological male to be a girl or a woman. I don't have to share your belief to think a child murder is horrific. Stop using this tragedy to push your agenda.

The most respectful tribute to Brianna would be to try and ensure that whatever the fuck happened that meant two remorseless teenagers could cheerfully joke about their list of murder victims cannot occur again.

I'm sparing a thought for the families of X and Y too. I genuinely can't imagine how you carry on from something like this.

I have conversations with bright teenagers regularly. They’re sure they’ve got it all figured out and they’ve outsmarted their parents, teachers and me, and their thought processes have plot holes you could drive a truck through.

No I don't identify as a human, I just am one. It's a provable fact, not a belief. Now how about you stop trying to derail a thread about the tragic murder of a child by two other children.

I meant nothing malicious by it, weird how you'd read it like that

I have conversations with bright teenagers regularly. They’re sure they’ve got it all figured out and they’ve outsmarted their parents, teachers and me, and their thought processes have plot holes you could drive a truck through.

Yes. There was an attempt by Girl X to create a false narrative that she didn't know what had happened to Brianna, sending Snapchat messages after saying "where are you, why did you go off with that guy". She also posted a tribute. So on some level she must have realised the police might look at her phone. But in other ways their online conversations were damning.