Guilty verdict in Brianna Ghey case

[RoyalCorgi]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/20/brianna-ghey-found-guilty-murder

Not a surprise - it felt very clear-cut.

Again. Please can people stop lying that anyone was disputing her existence. It's not true.

The lying in this thread is disgusting. Pretending that words mean different things.

And I can only assume that people commenting on a child's clothes are trying to get the thread closed down as well. Disgusting.

No one has disputed Brianna existed, don't be ridiculous. Point out one post which said 'Brianna didn't exist'.

I'm sorry you don't like the fact that not everyone has to believe what you believe, but currently in the UK that's the situation. There is no evidential test for being trans so yes, it's a belief. Sorry you don't like that fact.

How about you have some respect for Brianna, instead of deciding that you know who Brianna was or what Brianna believed? But you won't do that, because you're too busy using the murder of a child to push your ideology.

Yes it sounds like you think the wrong people were convicted?

My awful ideology of not disputing dead kid's identities as a point with which to pontificate over and needle trans people with

Police forces who ignore/fob off women reporting stalkers can legitimately have their competence questioned.

Did the court hear that Brianna had reported transphobic bullying from X and Y, that was similarly dismissed by teachers/parents?

Agreed, if someone wouldn't have respected Brianna in life I don't believe they genuinely respect her in death.

You are using the soap box.

A child is a child.

The death of any child is horrific.

The murder of any child is horrific.

The murder of a child by other children is a particularly troubling event.

The only agendas here should be looking at how the hell two children managed to go through with the murder of another child in this premeditated way.

They know what they're doing, even in death they deny Brianna basic dignity

I would say it’s due to repeated patterns. There are endless accounts of police misogyny/racism to give a pattern of chronic behaviour that lends to legitimate concerns about inherent misogyny/racism.

In contrast, the police and prosecutors in this case seem to have been exemplary with their investigation, sensitivity, thoroughness and communication of their findings in what must have been incredibly trying circumstances. Because this is such a rare event, it’s hard to extrapolate whether concerns about police in other areas have spilled over to this case. But I think there’s a genuineness to their efforts in this case and I suspect it will deeply affect those involved for years, like the Bulger case did.

Did you know Brianna? Yet you're so sure you know what Brianna's 'identity' was.

This thread is (was) about a shocking murder case not a way to 'needle trans people', how fucking self centred do you have to be to think that discussion of a case that doesn't involve you is just a way to annoy you?

@loveanafter8 so you think people who believe they are trans actually need to have some external criteria they should meet? Why isn't just believing you are trans enough for you?

No-one is saying that a child's self-image or identity was 'minimal'. It's hugely important.

So why the need for multiple threads on the gender critical board, started by gender critical people themselves?

I'm self centred for agreeing with Brianna and family with regards to who she was and not disputing it?

Are you alright?

So why the need for multiple threads on the gender critical board, started by gender critical people themselves?

Straw man.

Do you often go around questioning children's identities or just the trans kids

Did the court hear that Brianna had reported transphobic bullying from X and Y, that was similarly dismissed by teachers/parents?

Boy Y doesn't seem to have known Brianna at all before the murder according to the evidence given in court. He says he went along with what Girl X thought would be fun in her detailed fantasies, and he may or may not have brought prejudices he may or may not have had about trans people and gay people into this. He spoke about both in a dehumanising way but he claimed that's just how his friendship group spoke. They graphically fantasised about the violence and torture of several people on their list, that's in their WhatsApp and Snapchat messages.

I can only see one thread on the trial, discussing possible motivations for the murder within the context of child safeguarding (a priority for most posters on this board).

There is a related thread about the idiocy of an MP's comments, and one about the consequences of the unprofessionalism of a barrister.

I'm "gender critical" because when I was Brianna's age, boys having long hair and wearing make up didn't signify anything other that they were fans of Nirvana or The Crow.

I don't question anyone's identity. But you have shown your hand on this thread by saying that self-identifying as something is different from being it.

Don’t twist my words, stop trying to making the people asking you to respect who she was the bad people.

Crazy concept but hear me out, You can discuss what happened and STILL respect her.

Respecting her means using the correct pronouns regardless of your views because that’s what a decent human being would do. I hope you never find yourself in a position where strangers on the internet are invalidating your child’s existence during what can only be the worst time in a parents life.

Except I don't actually want to!

Who is driving the narrative to the exclusion of everything else? Be honest!

It's something I'm uncomfortable because of established concerns by legitimate authorities because there are clear concerns which are trying to be shut down!

Just have the adult conversations we need to have rather than having idiot MPs contradict the police and CPS and calling for MN to be shut down over something they haven't even read!

This is a really horrible case which makes my blood run cold every time I read about it.

I don't really want to argue about pronouns or transphobia here.

Brianna was the completely innocent victim of a truly evil crime. I am glad they have reached a guilty verdict before Christmas and hope this brings Brianna's family a small amount of peace.

I hope Brianna's mother has stopped looking at Mumsnet now but if there is any chance she is reading this, I am thinking of you.

An existence isn't a warranty. It can't be invalidated and it's disgusting that people think it can be.

All existences are valid. Sorry if that's a confusing concept.

you can have differing views and still respect a person. Sorry that basic human decency appears to be a confusing concept for you.