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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dating as a TERF

579 replies

TERFisTHEnewTREND · 14/12/2023 19:39

I'm a 34 year old female. I'm currently dating via Tinder.

When the gender issue has come up and I've mentioned that I'm a TERF, a lot of men have disengaged from me. I once went on three dates with a man, we got on great, and then when I mentioned my views on gender ideology, he ghosted me after!

Do you mention your stance up front or do you wait? I don't want to date anyone who thinks humans can change sex, is it worth stating this on my profile?

Any help/ advice/ insights appreciated.

OP posts:
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25
DC1888 · 15/12/2023 18:12

Waitwhat23 · 15/12/2023 16:55

'Oh no! The gender equivalent of flat earthers don't want to date me! What a world, what a world'.

You believe that people who support trans rights are the equivalent of flat earthers?

It's a rhetorical question because you don't.

Anyone who says they are a "trans-exclusionary radical feminist" is likely to turn away alot of people. I do think its wise to state it though as you want like minded people in a relationship...works better if both are similar in their outlook ("that's a bloke in a dress"..you can have those types of conversations).. two regressive types work better together.

SamW98 · 15/12/2023 18:15

InvisibleBuffy · 15/12/2023 17:51

Trans rights to... what exactly? I think you'll find most people here support trans rights if you mean basic human rights. It's trans entitlement that most of us have a problem with.
We often hear that rights aren't a pie, but it can be a good analogy.
Trans activists already have a slice in front of them. No one objects to that. It's them insisting that women give up their own hard won slice so that trans women can have double that's the problem.

Yep. We seem to be going round in circles with some still coming to the completely inaccurate conclusion that not wanting to share a women’s changing facilities with men = refusing to acknowledge their existence and wishing they would all just die.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/12/2023 18:21

You believe that people who support trans rights are the equivalent of flat earthers?

It's a rhetorical question because you don't.

It rather depends what you mean by "trans rights", don't you think? If you simply mean that trans people as a group should be free from discrimination and harassment, then no I don't think that's flat earth territory, no.

MargotBamborough · 15/12/2023 18:26

DC1888 · 15/12/2023 18:12

You believe that people who support trans rights are the equivalent of flat earthers?

It's a rhetorical question because you don't.

Anyone who says they are a "trans-exclusionary radical feminist" is likely to turn away alot of people. I do think its wise to state it though as you want like minded people in a relationship...works better if both are similar in their outlook ("that's a bloke in a dress"..you can have those types of conversations).. two regressive types work better together.

WHAT DOES SUPPORTING TRANS RIGHTS MEAN?

The right not to be harassed or discriminated against?

I support that.

The right to wear whatever they want or marry anyone who wants to marry them?

I support that too.

The right to use spaces for members of the opposite sex and compete in their sports?

No, I don't support that. Nobody else has that right and I don't see why trans people should.

Waitwhat23 · 15/12/2023 18:27

DC1888 · 15/12/2023 18:12

You believe that people who support trans rights are the equivalent of flat earthers?

It's a rhetorical question because you don't.

Anyone who says they are a "trans-exclusionary radical feminist" is likely to turn away alot of people. I do think its wise to state it though as you want like minded people in a relationship...works better if both are similar in their outlook ("that's a bloke in a dress"..you can have those types of conversations).. two regressive types work better together.

Did you quite think this bit through? -

It's a rhetorical question because you don't.

If someone genuinely believes that human beings can literally change sex (and there's plenty out there), then yes, I believe they are the gender equivalent of flat earthers.

My husband is as GC as I am. (I don't generally use the word terf as I believe it is 1. A slur and 2. Inaccurate - Male Exclusionary Radical Feminist is far more accurate). I value a partner who has critical thinking skills and values women as human beings in their own right, as opposed to support humans to be utilised for the benefit of men.

MsRosley · 15/12/2023 18:51

MargotBamborough · 15/12/2023 12:10

Jesus Christ, what a wet wipe.

I'd have said, "Oh really? Have you read the book? No? Would you like to borrow it? No? Oh. But if you haven't read the book and don't intend to read it, how can you pass judgement on its contents. Oh, what's that? You read about it on Wikipedia? Do you outsource all your opinions or are some of them the result of your own original thought?"

I think I'd meet performative crying with faux concern about idiot colleague's mental health, and a helpful suggestion that they might like to talk to a lovely psychiatrist friend of mine, because clearly they're not coping very well with life.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 15/12/2023 18:59

The idea that whether someone is a woman or man comes down to tired old stereotypes is as regressive as it gets.

As for flat earthers, I recommend this by Simon Edge. https://www.eye-books.com/books/the-end-of-the-world-is-flat

The End of the World is Flat by Simon Edge | Eye Books

A satire about a Flat Earth ideological takeover, in which teachers and airline pilots get sacked for heretical globularism

https://www.eye-books.com/books/the-end-of-the-world-is-flat

nothingcomestonothing · 15/12/2023 19:10

DC1888 · 15/12/2023 18:12

You believe that people who support trans rights are the equivalent of flat earthers?

It's a rhetorical question because you don't.

Anyone who says they are a "trans-exclusionary radical feminist" is likely to turn away alot of people. I do think its wise to state it though as you want like minded people in a relationship...works better if both are similar in their outlook ("that's a bloke in a dress"..you can have those types of conversations).. two regressive types work better together.

You seem to have jumped from the 'tiny numbers so can be sorted case by case' argument to the 'you're just out of touch with modern times' argument, with a side order of 'you said x, which therefore means you think y!'. Were you unable to answer the questions asked about how to assess individual TW for admittance to women's spaces?

MargotBamborough · 15/12/2023 19:22

MsRosley · 15/12/2023 18:51

I think I'd meet performative crying with faux concern about idiot colleague's mental health, and a helpful suggestion that they might like to talk to a lovely psychiatrist friend of mine, because clearly they're not coping very well with life.

I am actually thinking about taking this approach with a family member, but not over trans issues.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 15/12/2023 20:23

"You believe that people who support trans rights are the equivalent of flat earthers?"

Depends very much on the person's only personal level of faith / science denial, but they could be somewhere on the accidental misogynist to flat earth science denying spectrum yes.

Do they understand that sex is binary, and male and female are evolved cross species words [yes/no]

Do they believe humans actually literally change sex [yes/no]

Do they 'only' believe that sex is never as important as gender identity [yes/no]

TERFisTHEnewTREND · 15/12/2023 20:43

Nt1993 · 15/12/2023 00:23

Imagine moaning that people won’t date you because you’re so closed minded. lol.

Maybe they’re using that as an excuse and aside from your intolerance you just have a shit personality too?

Also I find it so funny that people like you are moaning that trans people are “shoving their views down your throat” when it’s often people like YOU who have to announce to everyone that you are a proud TERF… most trans people want to be left alone and live their lives. Why are you so passionate on this hatred? Who hurt you?

What part of gender critical views are "closed minded"?

And, for the record, lots of people want to date me. However, I don't want to date anyone who doesn't support the rights of women.

OP posts:
Mamoun · 15/12/2023 20:54

You're not a TERF - you're gender critical!
Me too 😊
Most people are ☺️
Not one man that you might be dating will want to date a man in a skirt no matter who they identify with.
I think you need to present the issue a bit more naively and without animosity towards trans women. That's the unattractive part. I actually feel sorry for TE who have been sold a massive lie.

Mamoun · 15/12/2023 20:56

DC1888 · 14/12/2023 20:26

Terf is a bigot though, that would put anyone off.

Was astounded reading Wikipedia yesterday to see that the UK is dubbed "terf island".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERF_(acronym)

The reason I found it astounding is the UK is the birthplace of androgyny becoming mainstream via glam rock/new romantics...the UK was far ahead of anywhere else in uprooting gender norms. When anyone thinks of the UK they think progressive/good sense... the right wing fringe (Farage) excepted.

Terf is regressive/backward and very un-UK like...its something you'd expect from the US bible belt (no doubt they are too).

A source on that wiki article posits why terf is so strong in the UK: "The U.K. has a long history of powerful feminist movements and feminist activism that has been successful in securing large-scale legal reforms around the notion of 'women's rights,' so TERF groups build on the legacy of this past feminist work when they articulate their politics of 'women's sex-based rights.'"

So Wollstonecraft (founder of feminism), Pankhurst etc. They fought for good causes though. Being a bigot is not a good cause.

You can be against natural born males bejng in natural born women sports (theres a fair argument for that), but to mals the sweeping statement that transwomen are not woman is bloody bigoted/backward/ignorant.

Trans women are not women.
That's not bigoted, it is just true.

redlavender · 15/12/2023 21:01

the sweeping statement that transwomen are not woman is bloody bigoted/backward/ignorant.

But how on earth CAN a biological male be a female/woman? It's biologically impossible!

catduckgoose · 15/12/2023 21:07

It's funny how often conversations with TRAs follow the exact same pattern. Come on, tell us something new.

ArthurbellaScott · 15/12/2023 21:49

Mamoun · 15/12/2023 20:54

You're not a TERF - you're gender critical!
Me too 😊
Most people are ☺️
Not one man that you might be dating will want to date a man in a skirt no matter who they identify with.
I think you need to present the issue a bit more naively and without animosity towards trans women. That's the unattractive part. I actually feel sorry for TE who have been sold a massive lie.

Where's the animosity?

ArthurbellaScott · 15/12/2023 21:50

catduckgoose · 15/12/2023 21:07

It's funny how often conversations with TRAs follow the exact same pattern. Come on, tell us something new.

Female reindeer are the only female deer to grow antlers.

Mamoun · 15/12/2023 22:07

@ArthurbellaScott
I didn't mean the OP had any animosity towards TW. I find that the TE part of TERF somehow suggests animosity. I know it is not the case but it can come across this way. What I am saying is that when explaining that one is GC it is important to underline that there is no animosity towards trans identifying people.

Helleofabore · 15/12/2023 22:11

Blimey. I don’t think those posting in support of trans people acrually believe they are doing good job in that support.

So far we have baseless accusations of bigotry, offering up ignorant use of hermaphrodite, mindless declarations that males should be prioritised, false leverage of women’s trauma to somehow prove that a group of male people are somehow less of a risk than the rest of the male population (ie. Baseless AND false), further accusations that women who understand safeguarding are hateful and extreme, and the ridiculous false assertion that the OP and others on this thread don’t support any trans rights.

If readers were at all trying to wade through the accusations to work out what is truthful assertion and what is false, I hope by now you have worked out that those who seek to portray feminists as hateful, bigots seem to have lost proportionality and the ability to have honest discussion.

Which of those posters so far has answered any questions about their accusations? Which of them have actually discussed the issues rather than simply ignore and throw in new accusations?

Do you see the pattern? It is really very obvious. It is so repetitive too. You see it regularly. Different posters, or sometimes the same ones, but usually the same pattern. Either they are posters who cannot tolerate that people do not believe that male people can become ‘women’, for what ever reason. Or. They are posters who don’t believe that male people can become ‘women’ but who cannot be seen as being anything like those ‘terfs’, anything like those feminists. Ever. They don’t really understand anything in depth that they post, they just know that they cannot be seen to be like ‘those women’ over there who are to be reviled and vilified.

Once you see the pattern, it is very clear and you won’t miss it when you see it used again and again and again. They cannot answer direct questions about their posts because they lack the knowledge or they understand that their position is based on falsity so they post and run and feel they have scolded enough to maintain that feeling of righteousness and being so so kind.

Meanwhile, they have presented very poor discussion points in supposed support of trans people when all they have actually done is shown just how weak and poor the discussion points are. Those points cannot withstand scrutiny or analysis.

It certainly hasn’t presented support for trans people in any positive light nor has it given any reader something to go away and think about. Instead, it has just shown the endless cycle of emotional manipulation that obviously those posters allowed themselves to be convinced by, to prioritise male people above female people.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 15/12/2023 22:18

the UK was far ahead of anywhere else in uprooting gender norms. When anyone thinks of the UK they think progressive/good sense.

I know you don't see it yet but we still are, not everyone who disagrees with 'allowing' people to change which set of restrictive gender norms they need to conform to is coming from the same place.

It ignores the (sometimes) important to deify the trivial and superficial. Be yourself everyone else is taken. I oppose this idea as it is fundamentally misogynistic and homophobic.

SinnerBoy · 15/12/2023 22:32

DadJoke · Today 15:45

It's a good thing to flag up on your profile to eliminate the large number of people who wouldn't date somone with those views. No matter how charming you are, people who support trans rights aren't going to want to date you.

To which trans rights are you referring?

The right to impose themselves on and intimidate women in toilets? The right to cheat in and dominate women's sports?

Or the right, which we all support, to dress and call themselves as they please and go about their everyday lives without harassment?

MsRosley · 15/12/2023 22:52

Helleofabore · 15/12/2023 22:11

Blimey. I don’t think those posting in support of trans people acrually believe they are doing good job in that support.

So far we have baseless accusations of bigotry, offering up ignorant use of hermaphrodite, mindless declarations that males should be prioritised, false leverage of women’s trauma to somehow prove that a group of male people are somehow less of a risk than the rest of the male population (ie. Baseless AND false), further accusations that women who understand safeguarding are hateful and extreme, and the ridiculous false assertion that the OP and others on this thread don’t support any trans rights.

If readers were at all trying to wade through the accusations to work out what is truthful assertion and what is false, I hope by now you have worked out that those who seek to portray feminists as hateful, bigots seem to have lost proportionality and the ability to have honest discussion.

Which of those posters so far has answered any questions about their accusations? Which of them have actually discussed the issues rather than simply ignore and throw in new accusations?

Do you see the pattern? It is really very obvious. It is so repetitive too. You see it regularly. Different posters, or sometimes the same ones, but usually the same pattern. Either they are posters who cannot tolerate that people do not believe that male people can become ‘women’, for what ever reason. Or. They are posters who don’t believe that male people can become ‘women’ but who cannot be seen as being anything like those ‘terfs’, anything like those feminists. Ever. They don’t really understand anything in depth that they post, they just know that they cannot be seen to be like ‘those women’ over there who are to be reviled and vilified.

Once you see the pattern, it is very clear and you won’t miss it when you see it used again and again and again. They cannot answer direct questions about their posts because they lack the knowledge or they understand that their position is based on falsity so they post and run and feel they have scolded enough to maintain that feeling of righteousness and being so so kind.

Meanwhile, they have presented very poor discussion points in supposed support of trans people when all they have actually done is shown just how weak and poor the discussion points are. Those points cannot withstand scrutiny or analysis.

It certainly hasn’t presented support for trans people in any positive light nor has it given any reader something to go away and think about. Instead, it has just shown the endless cycle of emotional manipulation that obviously those posters allowed themselves to be convinced by, to prioritise male people above female people.

It's so fucking boring, isn't it? Like playing whack-a-mole.

TERFisTHEnewTREND · 15/12/2023 23:32

Update: I'm still single Sad

OP posts:
DC1888 · 15/12/2023 23:37

TERFisTHEnewTREND · 15/12/2023 23:32

Update: I'm still single Sad

Well being a terf will severely limit your pool of potential partners....

stillplentyofjunkinthetrunk · 15/12/2023 23:41

better to be alone than with the wrong person

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