Dating as a TERF

[TERFisTHEnewTREND]

I'm a 34 year old female. I'm currently dating via Tinder.

When the gender issue has come up and I've mentioned that I'm a TERF, a lot of men have disengaged from me. I once went on three dates with a man, we got on great, and then when I mentioned my views on gender ideology, he ghosted me after!

Do you mention your stance up front or do you wait? I don't want to date anyone who thinks humans can change sex, is it worth stating this on my profile?

Any help/ advice/ insights appreciated.

I'm sorry you have to work with such an idiot btw.

argued that she's worth reading whether you agree with her or not and .... that's when the tears happened. Not sobbing, just shiny eyes and thickened voice, but heartfelt nonetheless.

I've said before, this anger and "feeling unsafe" etc when asked to engage with reasonable points about sex based rights/female sex as a distinct category of people is often motivated by the pure fear of accidentally committing a wrongthink and then being ostracised by what they consider civilised society.

Transwomen are not women.To believe otherwise is like being a young earth creationist or believing in chemtrails. I expect some men check Terf on American sites and suspect you are a reactionary right winger.

Although some might be conservative types who are scared off by the Radical Feminist part?

I think it's widespread in certain sectors and young people. I wish someone would do some research on it.

MargotBamborough · Today 10:52

The only reason they are prioritised in this way is because they are NOT women. If they were, society wouldn't give a shit about them.

Tragically, that sums it up perfectly.

I think I'd have offered tissues and the phone to call the crisis team and have kept a careful distance from them from then on....

This ideology is unfortunately heavily populated by people with significant vulnerabilities and problems, and you can't have a conversation with that kind of irrationality and extreme emotion. I mean, someone who's going to actually be reduced to tears by the thought of women's equality and child safeguarding.... fgs.

ArthurbellaScott · Today 12:09

So if they rape you, bingo, they were of the former type, but if they don't, then they are the latter?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's exactly what I want my currently captured (ten year old) daughter to be able to understand and process.

Bingo

How is this meant to work, in real life though? Who is evaluating men with lady feelz on a case by case basis outside the swimming pool changing rooms/ public loos/ hospital bays? And by what criteria are they deciding yes or no? And what authority do they have to tell the person yes or no? You know most TW have no surgery, right? And most don't have a GRC, and even if they do you're legally not allowed to ask to see it? How is this going to work?

PS what is the difference between 'males who try to masquerade as females' and any other male who says he's a woman?

PPS you do know that gatekeeping is very transphobic, don't you? Anyone who says they're trans, is trans, that's the criteria. That's it. Congratulations, you're a TERF.

Since you cannot ask to see anyone's genitals or their gender recognition certificate before allowing them to use a toilet or a changing room, and even if you could, the majority of toilets and changing rooms are not staffed by people employed for this purpose, it is not possible to decide on a case by case basis.

Either you say single sex means single sex and even a trans woman with a gender recognition certificate who has had their penis removed cannot use women's single sex spaces, or you say any man who wants to use a women's space for any reason is free to do so.

There is actually no middle ground here, because it is impossible to implement.

At least with sports and prisons people can't just barge their way in, there is some sort of gatekeeping by people in positions of authority.

I would show your daughter a picture of Levi Bellfield and ask whether he should be allowed to use women's toilets and changing rooms. Explain who he is if she doesn't know.

When she says no of course not, ask her what system we could put in place which allows genuine and harmless trans women into women's toilets but keeps people like Levi Bellfield out.

I'm not on dating apps, do a lot of people put pronouns ?

I mentioned small numbers purely as a means to state that a case by case thorough evaluation is doable.

So how what that would work, just go with your gut feel? Is there a set of criteria when a male person should be allowed to access services and sports? And what should you do if women object to the presence of a male person? And what if you say no, based on your gut feel or set of criteria and the male person objects to being told no?
And what if a man who in no way meets the criteria, demands access, after all, other male person get access so why not him? Isn't that discrimination?

What you see happening, is that all male people get access, transwomen and men, because it easier to tell women to suck it up than get threatened with lawsuits and be on the receiving end of social media attacks.

This is why most women, after doing some thorough investigation, want to go back to a blanket ban on all male people, regardless of their internal identity feelings. Because that is the only way you can keep the bad male people out.

Bingo. It's the almighty dick pandering which gets to me.

Ya and it’s an immediate swipe left for me along with anyone who puts their vaccine status- it’s a dating app not medical research.

Think OLD shows many men have no idea what pronouns mean as loads have he/she/they or other combinations that make no sense.

Tbh I'd not put that on my dating profile, but then I wouldn't want to date someone who believes in the gender fairies either so it would be doing me a favour really.

MargotBamborough · Today 12:47

I would show your daughter a picture of Levi Bellfield and ask whether he should be allowed to use women's toilets and changing rooms. Explain who he is if she doesn't know.

Is he one too, now? I obviously know about Pink Leggings, "Karen" White and Andrew Miller. Are the bastards on a recruitment drive?

😔

Yes.

And of course the only way to provide facilities that are inclusive and accessible to all female people.

Otherwise you end up with some female people having nothing at all so that all male people can take their preferred choice of everything.

On a binary, sexed basis.

After all, we're not just talking about male people who identify as transwomen, we're talking about all kinds of identities, inclusive of non binary, fluid, Pips Bunce who is a woman some days and not others, Izzard who varies according to what mode he is in, and so on.

No, as far as I'm aware he isn't.

But how can you let nice harmless trans women in and keep him out?

If someone like Levi Bellfield is capable of abducting, raping and murdering school girls in broad daylight, I'm pretty sure he's capable of saying, "I identify as a woman".

So clearly the eligibility criteria for using women's spaces can't be based on someone saying they identify as a woman, because literally anyone could say that, including you.

Try saying it to your daughter.

"OK, Lucy. I identify as a woman. As of five seconds ago. Is it now OK for me to use women's changing rooms with you and your friends?"

Once she acknowledges that someone just saying they identify as a woman isn't enough, you then say, "OK, so if the eligibility requirement for using women's spaces can't be "this person says they identify as a woman", because anyone can say that, and it can't be "this person is biologically female", because that would exclude trans women, can you explain what you think the rule should be which would actually work to let nice harmless trans women who just want to pee in, and keep Levi Bellfield out."

I think the major problem in regards to this issue is liberals (which I include myself) went extreme by basically saying anyone who says they are female, well fill yer boots, no evaluations, no nothing, you are now a female. This nutty policy then caused the other side to become extreme (terfs, "radical feminists", being an example.). MargotBamborough on this thread, this is the extreme end of the scale. As a society we lost the middle (sane/tolerant) ground.

The ridiculous ease with which people can change gender (for example in the Scottish bill which the UK Gov correctly blocked) caused the like of JK Rowling to speak out. The nutty proposals of the far left created this issue.

DC1888, but what you are describing as the workings of the nutty left, is what has led to women losing single sex sports, services and even prisons. So what should happen now, if you don't want a blanket ban but case by case? Seeing as the Scottish government is deeming case by case means 'nice' prisoners who say they are women should be allowed access to womens prisons so they can 'practice' being a women, with nobody bothering to ask if women want to practiced'?

Somebody needs to draw a legal line that provides equal rights to all women and all (genuine and non genuine) transwomen. So it is not self id for a GRC. Then what is it? Medical diagnosis? Gender dysphoria is no longer a medical condition so how would that work? And also, why should women lose their rights, because some male person has gender dysphoria?

And if you let the nice harmless lovely ones in, even if they've personally been soul-checked by Layla Moran on the door,

some women will still have to leave and not be able to use the resource. Because it will be mixed sex.

These women are tax payers. They are equally entitled to access and resources, that their taxes pay for.

You cannot think that it's ok to exclude some women from anything so that men can choose from everything unless you fundamentally believe in the supremacy of people born male. Outside of happy alternative realities, there's no getting around the fact that these women have needs too and this circle cannot ever be squared. The only answer is third spaces.

Recognising the necessity of and advocating for female-only spaces is an extreme view?

MargotBamborough · Today 13:30

But how can you let nice harmless trans women in and keep him out?

Ah, I've got it now; you can see why I'd actually believe that he had decided he was a woman, it's far from beyond the realms of possibility.

Thanks for the ideas, I think I'll wait another year or so, I have made similar comments, but they're not well received. I think it's because of her friend "Polly," although a while back, she did do a double take and sat back and went quiet, when a local "character" got on the Metro.

Them wears fetish type gear and has long blonde bunches (here's a pint of mind bleach, btw...) and swaggers and talks like many blokes.

So far you have expressed views that would be considered bigoted on this very thread.

What is it exactly that Margot has expressed that is 'extreme' to you? She is articulating the major issues with 'case by case', which I believe that YOU have been on this thread saying is the solution. It is not a solution because it is completely unworkable in real life.

Please, tell us on this thread, exactly how you see your own suggestion working to keep women and children safe and protected.

Because so far, you are throwing plenty of accusations around saying others are 'nutty', yet weren't you the poster who actually used the term 'hermaphodite' in relation to humans? That is not just 'nutty' it is just plain ignorant.