Page 8 | Kemi Badenoch to face Women & Equalities Committee’s questions on equalities issues - 13 December 2023

IwantToRetire · 2023-12-13T17:43:49+00:00

Sorry I am sure there was a thread started in preparation for this but cant find it. Happy to delete this if someone can give me link as search hasn't. Still happening I think, [[https://committees.parliament.uk/event/19766 https://committees.parliament.uk/event/19766]] [[https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/41208ebe-60ce-4f19-99d4-0edc4e99e384 https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/41208ebe-60ce-4f19-99d4-0edc4e99e384]]

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 14/12/2023 23:29

JanesLittleGirl · 14/12/2023 22:47

And we are still told to vote Labour because of the "bigger picture".

The "bigger picture" for women is being recognised in law as a reproductive class and having our rights as that reproductive class protected in law.

If we don't have that, we as a reproductive class are screwed, no matter whether the govt is tax-and-spend or tax-breaks-and-privatise.

OtherS · 15/12/2023 00:24

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 14/12/2023 21:54

Yes: Kemi is Black and female. @Froodwithatowel summarised it well. As a Black woman, Kemi is expected to be aligned with the left. She refuses to be, so she must be punished and discredited.

The only thing the left (with the notable exception of some of the communist groups) hate more than a minoritised person with rightist political beliefs is a doubly-minoritised person with rightist political beliefs, such as Kemi. When minoritised people reject identity politics, it undermines the modern left because identity politics has replaced economic and reproductive class politics for the left. TERF-bashing is a subset of this hatred, notable only by its vitriol. Why do you think they go after lesbians and Black women the hardest?

I think it's a form of entitlement to think that someone "belongs" to you or "your side" and should parrot your beliefs because they aren't white, aren't male, or both. I also think it's racist and sexist and an instructive example of the left's hypocrisy in that they tell us to call out racism and sexism but indulge in it themselves "for the cause".

Edited

Show quote history

Quite. Also there's possibly the understanding that she is a genuine threat, and there's not many of them in the Tories at the moment so it must be disconcerting!

inkjet · 15/12/2023 01:06

I think it's a form of entitlement to think that someone "belongs" to you or "your side" and should parrot your beliefs because they aren't white, aren't male, or both. I also think it's racist and sexist and an instructive example of the left's hypocrisy in that they tell us to call out racism and sexism but indulge in it themselves "for the cause".

Yes. I also think there’s a real outrage that this black woman is pushing back and saying no and absolutely refusing to lie down and take it. They’re all for saying that racism is bad but subconsciously they see someone like Kemi or Allison Bailey as beneath them and therefore are taken aback when they don’t offer gratitude just to be allowed a place at the table, but present their own opinions and counteract theirs. Let alone consider that these women may be vastly more intelligent than them.

Froodwithatowel · 15/12/2023 08:10

It's like the clanging dissonance of 'anyone who voted against gay marriage is evil and subhuman' and 'conversion therapy is evil!' declaimed alongside 'and homosexuality is sexual racism and homosexuals should learn to like sex with people of the opposite sex so as not to offend re people's gender'.

These are not the politics of those with any capacity for independent thought, logic, self awareness.....

Wahinewontwheesht · 15/12/2023 08:37

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 14/12/2023 23:29

The "bigger picture" for women is being recognised in law as a reproductive class and having our rights as that reproductive class protected in law.

If we don't have that, we as a reproductive class are screwed, no matter whether the govt is tax-and-spend or tax-breaks-and-privatise.

Show quote history

A government that denies reality will be of detriment to the people of that nation. It will, of course, be the women and children that suffer first.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 15/12/2023 08:56

Stonewall tried so hard to destroy Allison Bailey. But they just made themselves look like idiots.

ResisterRex · 15/12/2023 09:01

Nokes voted against gay marriage. As Kemi noted at the WESC.

Watch at the end, as that is also revealing. The exchange about NDAs, to which Nokes got a full answer. But this wasn't enough and she attempted a gotcha, citing a previous witness - "very brave woman". With an eyebrow raise and arm fold that said "unlike YOU".

pickledandpuzzled · 15/12/2023 09:18

Tribalism has a lot to answer for. I don’t get it. I don’t have a tribe.

Does the left acknowledge ‘identity politics’? Or is that what everyone else calls it as a slur?

DrBlackbird · 15/12/2023 09:33

For those who believe in GI or at least believe in the teaming of the t with the lgb, it’s all about feelings (as exemplified by KO here and that male MP in the commons), however misplaced and illogical. It’s not about facts for them.

Plus, no one, including Noakes, seems to like an intelligent and plain speaking woman. As they are both Tory, one can only assume that Noakes dislikes KB because of their different perspective on this one issue. Either that or Noakes just doesn’t like an intelligent woman in the room showing her up.

Up until now, most politicians obfuscate and bluff on the GI issue, which is why we are in the mess we are with the whole GI vs biological reality issue across sports, healthcare and education. Afraid of offending the T community (but okay with offending women in sports and jails and mixed sex wards etc).

Then along comes KB listening to experts, meeting people who have been permanently harmed, and answering to questions with actual intelligent thoughts based on the facts and everyone explodes. Tells us something about the state of our politics. I have come to the conclusion that losing KB from politics will be a real loss.

nauticant · 15/12/2023 10:02

Does the left acknowledge ‘identity politics’? Or is that what everyone else calls it as a slur?

They say that anyone saying anything about it other than praise is a bigot engaged in a culture war.

"Culture war" is a powerful term at the moment. Say it to the right crowd and they automatically shut down their own critical thinking.

RoyalCorgi · 15/12/2023 10:15

As always, I'm struck by the paucity of the arguments on the trans-activist side. A constant appeal to feelings, inflammatory rhetoric about section 28 and false accusations of bigotry against the other side. No attempt to use evidence or rational argument. It's the sort of thing you expect from teenagers, not from educated adults, let alone ones whose job is to employ their critical faculties to weigh up arguments and evidence.

I can only assume that, in their hearts, these people know that the belief system they are backing is entirely irrational. They're simply frightened of being thought prejudiced or bigoted.

RebelliousCow · 15/12/2023 10:32

“It is simply a fact that, in recent history, rejection of the Western Rationalistic Tradition has gone hand in hand with the proposals for politically motivated changes in the curriculum. So, what is the connection? I think the relationships are very complex, and I do not know of any simple answer to the question. But underlying all the complexity there is, I believe, this simple structure: those who want to use the universities, especially the humanities, for leftist political transformation correctly perceive that the Western Rationalistic Tradition is an obstacle in their path. In spite of their variety, most of the challengers to the traditional conception of education correctly perceive that if they are forced to conduct academic life according to a set of rules determined by constraints of truth, objectivity, clarity, rationality, logic, and the brute existence of the real world, their task is made more difficult, perhaps impossible.”:

https://open.substack.com/pub/wokaldistance/p/ideological-capture?r=clsg2&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Ideological Capture

How the ideological capture of universities warps them and subverts the search for truth.

https://open.substack.com/pub/wokaldistance/p/ideological-capture?r=clsg2

ExpectantAsshole · 15/12/2023 11:23

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 14/12/2023 21:54

Yes: Kemi is Black and female. @Froodwithatowel summarised it well. As a Black woman, Kemi is expected to be aligned with the left. She refuses to be, so she must be punished and discredited.

The only thing the left (with the notable exception of some of the communist groups) hate more than a minoritised person with rightist political beliefs is a doubly-minoritised person with rightist political beliefs, such as Kemi. When minoritised people reject identity politics, it undermines the modern left because identity politics has replaced economic and reproductive class politics for the left. TERF-bashing is a subset of this hatred, notable only by its vitriol. Why do you think they go after lesbians and Black women the hardest?

I think it's a form of entitlement to think that someone "belongs" to you or "your side" and should parrot your beliefs because they aren't white, aren't male, or both. I also think it's racist and sexist and an instructive example of the left's hypocrisy in that they tell us to call out racism and sexism but indulge in it themselves "for the cause".

Edited

Show quote history

It’s such arrogance on the left to take for granted that women and minorities will vote for them. In the past, labour and the democrats in the US used to have policies that were beneficial for women and minorities. But now they are so disconnected from those groups it’s ridiculous.
In the US, black and Hispanic voters tend to be more religious and socially conservative but the Dems haven’t figured this out. The culture war and Identity politics drives people who used to be left wing voters away.

Froodwithatowel · 15/12/2023 11:31

See Mandelson's openly expressed beliefs in the 'post democratic era' that New Labour saw as their desired future. Where the superior would make the unwashed do what was good for them and not be hindered by democracy or representation.

The absolute snobbery of the left has become a sad joke.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 15/12/2023 11:39

ExpectantAsshole · 15/12/2023 11:23

It’s such arrogance on the left to take for granted that women and minorities will vote for them. In the past, labour and the democrats in the US used to have policies that were beneficial for women and minorities. But now they are so disconnected from those groups it’s ridiculous.
In the US, black and Hispanic voters tend to be more religious and socially conservative but the Dems haven’t figured this out. The culture war and Identity politics drives people who used to be left wing voters away.

Show quote history

Labour over here are disconnected from working class people and take their votes for granted, hence why so much of the Red Wall turned blue last GE.

Yet they don't learn.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/12/2023 12:04

Personally, I think the most important thing is for Badenoch to get through to people that it is completely acceptable to exclude TW from women-only spaces. There's been so much nonsense spoken and the general public are still only just becoming properly aware. If she wins the battle to separate TW from W in order to protect women in one area it becomes so much more straight forward to do it in other areas.

Essentially, what she is doing is indicating not only that transwomen are not women, she's also reiterating the EA position that transwomen should not be treated like women in some circumstances. That is such a massive step forward compared to where we were even just 2 years ago.

Completely agree. The clarity and commitment to the legal principles of the Equality Act as being for everyone is so refreshing.

SinnerBoy · 15/12/2023 13:14

I agree, people are only becoming aware now - in general, not those of us who'd already become aware of the situation - because of cases like Maya Forstater, Jo Phoenix et al.

5 or 6 years ago, I thought a transw was a woman who wanted to be a man, for example.

Their vicious attacks on anyone and everyone who said, "Hang on a minute..." and having them silenced and sacked has led to people being afraid to voice legitimate concerns and emboldened the headbanger zealots. That said, I am actually optimistic that the tide will turn, as more of their bonkers ideology is exposed to the light.

SinnerBoy · 15/12/2023 13:15

EmpressaurusOfCats · Today 08:56

Stonewall tried so hard to destroy Allison Bailey. But they just made themselves look like idiots.

They didn't make themselves look like idiots, they exposed themselves as idiots. Dangerous, nasty idiots.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 15/12/2023 13:19

The clarity and commitment to the legal principles of the Equality Act as being for everyone is so refreshing.

Indeed. There was that interview she did earlier in the year that really nailed it. She said too many people see the equality act as a sword with which you can attack others when really it is a shield with which you can defend yourself.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 15/12/2023 14:49

SinnerBoy · 15/12/2023 13:15

EmpressaurusOfCats · Today 08:56

Stonewall tried so hard to destroy Allison Bailey. But they just made themselves look like idiots.

They didn't make themselves look like idiots, they exposed themselves as idiots. Dangerous, nasty idiots.

Excellent point.

Datun · 15/12/2023 16:18

SinnerBoy · 15/12/2023 13:14

I agree, people are only becoming aware now - in general, not those of us who'd already become aware of the situation - because of cases like Maya Forstater, Jo Phoenix et al.

5 or 6 years ago, I thought a transw was a woman who wanted to be a man, for example.

Their vicious attacks on anyone and everyone who said, "Hang on a minute..." and having them silenced and sacked has led to people being afraid to voice legitimate concerns and emboldened the headbanger zealots. That said, I am actually optimistic that the tide will turn, as more of their bonkers ideology is exposed to the light.

Edited

Yes, the silence in has just made all that fury become pent-up. It hasn't made it disappear.

DrBlackbird · 15/12/2023 20:10

JemimaTiggywinkles · 15/12/2023 13:19

The clarity and commitment to the legal principles of the Equality Act as being for everyone is so refreshing.

Indeed. There was that interview she did earlier in the year that really nailed it. She said too many people see the equality act as a sword with which you can attack others when really it is a shield with which you can defend yourself.

It must help that she’s got a law degree (on top of a MSc in Engineering).

Original poster

IwantToRetire · 15/12/2023 21:07

A bit more media coverage. This one in the "i" is very admiring of her and her recent appearance at the W&E Committee.

But they are afraid, that despite her admirable skills, she isn't prepared to be "charming"!!

Ultimately, several colleagues think Badenoch’s best asset is her Margaret Thatcher-like refusal to suffer fools, and say she has a Thatcherite work rate and firm beliefs in free markets and personal liberty. But Thatcher also had a deftness of touch, an ability to charm as well as terrify her fellow MPs. If Badenoch thinks such “soft” skills are irrelevant, she may find out the hard way that they still matter.

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/rottweiler-kemi-badenoch-next-tory-leader-doesnt-bite-own-2809951

Available to read at https://archive.ph/cECBl

Kemi Badenoch is her own worst enemy

The Business and Trade Secretary’s ruthless attack on a Labour MP endears her to some colleagues, but worries others

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/rottweiler-kemi-badenoch-next-tory-leader-doesnt-bite-own-2809951

OP posts:

JemimaTiggywinkles · 15/12/2023 22:35

DrBlackbird I didn’t know she was an engineer. That explains her ability to cut through to the root of the problem and address it head on. (Yes, I used to be an engineer and fully admit my bias.)

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 15/12/2023 22:55

SinnerBoy · 15/12/2023 13:14

I agree, people are only becoming aware now - in general, not those of us who'd already become aware of the situation - because of cases like Maya Forstater, Jo Phoenix et al.

5 or 6 years ago, I thought a transw was a woman who wanted to be a man, for example.

Their vicious attacks on anyone and everyone who said, "Hang on a minute..." and having them silenced and sacked has led to people being afraid to voice legitimate concerns and emboldened the headbanger zealots. That said, I am actually optimistic that the tide will turn, as more of their bonkers ideology is exposed to the light.

Edited

Considering that TRAs have deliberately “queered” language by unilaterally redefining words such as “woman”, I am tempted to give them a taste of their own medicine by redefining “trans woman” to mean “a woman who wishes she was a man” and so on. At least that would provide a bit of amusement as the likes of India Willoughby get upset at being called trans men.