Kemi Badenoch to face Women & Equalities Committee’s questions on equalities issues - 13 December 2023

[IwantToRetire]

Sorry I am sure there was a thread started in preparation for this but cant find it.

Happy to delete this if someone can give me link as search hasn't.

Still happening I think,

https://committees.parliament.uk/event/19766

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/41208ebe-60ce-4f19-99d4-0edc4e99e384

I find Kemi Badenoch quite scary — because if she keeps up like this, and if she is as clear-thinking and evidence-based in other areas of policy, she may make a Tory of me yet. I'm a depressed and end-of-my-tether Labour voter (and party member) who has just written to her thanking her for all she's doing on this front.

I feel mortified for and furious with Kate Osborne, who's exposed her lack of intelligence and rigour for the world to see. She thought righteous indignation would be enough and didn't do her homework. What a fool she's made of herself.

That's a good article. Bit rushed, and I'd love to see a creative journalist handle it. There's so much fodder, it could be glorious.

The implication that (HSTS) transwomen were using women's bathrooms before and no one minded, is quite a common attitude. And certainly, there wasn't this wholesale destruction of women's rights as a result of it.

And she might well be classing predation as a man, any man, entering a woman's space when they don't want him to. I certainly do.

But at the end of the day, if you're going to exclude Alf who gets his cock out and uploads it to some fetish site, you're going to have to exclude them all.

And, given she's a politician, she will be thinking how can she get most people on board.

KB lost her temper which shows a slight lack of self control. Understandable, but I wish she hadn't.

Being accused by another MP of something you haven't done, designed to make you look bad, always gets a firm response — because MPs have to preserve their integrity, come what may. Kemi was very assertive because KO was lying. She will also have been aware that making an accusation of lying would draw attention to the slur. It was a clever manoeuvre: people are talking about it. She didn't lose her self-control: she was assertive. It's always the same, isn't it? A man gives an angry response and he's strong and assertive. A woman is assertive in the face of a slur and someone'll comment on her lack of self-control.

See also MP Tonia Antoniazzi's very strong response to Dawn Bowden (MS in the Welsh government) saying that Tonia hadn't given her specifics about the Welsh Rugby Football Union. Tonia had evidence that she had and said so very firmly. In that case Bowden referred herself for investigation, knowing she'd lied. It would be good if Kate Osborne would do the same. In fact if I was Keir Starmer I'd be asking for it to be investigated and putting some distance between me and KO. The voters of Jarrow know what a woman is.

Hear hear

So, calculated and not losing her temper. On reflection, and rewatching, I think you're all right. Here's the Spectator's view, with video clip.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/watch-kemi-badenoch-blasts-labour-mp-in-gender-spat/

KB did not lose her temper, she was robust in defending her reputation.

KB has said some really helpful things:

• the law needs to separate sex and gender
• both the EA and GRA need reviewing
• the EA protected characteristics protect everyone - sex = men and women equally protected
• Need to look at the original purpose of the GRA and if it is still appropriate given same sex marriage is now legal
• those with a GRC need consideration
• parents love their children more than teachers do and safeguarding should protect the small minority at risk if they disclose a child’s disclosure they think they are trans.
• Separation between trans people and predators using existing legislation
• Waiting for the final Cass report.

KB set out a moderate position that many people can support and which respects both women and trans people.

I know there are very vocal people on both sides of the debate who will hate this position which probably means it’s right.

The other thing that I hope is going to get some real clarity is this idea that you're 'outing' children and young people.

Either identifying as the opposite sex is because you have gender dysphoria and find your sexed body distressing, or it isn't. And if it isn't, what is it? A lifestyle choice?

How can Osborne genuinely believe that if a child has gender dysphoria, a psychological issue, their parents should be kept in the dark??

She doesn't. She's deliberately conflating gay civil rights, with gender dysphoria.

Of course, we see all the time, that vast swathes of people who say they are trans don't have gender dysphoria at all. From Malaga Man, to non-binary attention seekers.

and Kemi was quite clear that they were trying to define what transgender means. And that's why it's taking so long. I felt for her. It's a minefield.

Looking forward to hearing it though!

Kemi didn't lose her temper. She was robust and assertive. She is the woman I'd love to be.

And she made the Osborne and Nokes look like fools - which wasn't difficult because they are fools. What the hell did we, the Great British Public, do to deserve such pathetic, whiny, idiotic cowards as our representatives?

For an example of a politician losing their temper, see Lloyd Russell Moyle flying off the handle at Rosie Duffield. He shouted at her, it was completely uncalled for and over the top.

Kemi was firm, assertive and authoritative. She handed Kate her arse on a plate. Kate is so self-righteous though that she probably didn’t even realise her arse was missing in the first place. My favourite part was when Kemi demanded receipts about her alleged use of the word “disease” and Kate flubbed back along the lines of “I don’t have to answer your questions”. It was laughable. Like a naughty teenager hauled before the head after being caught red-handed smoking behind the bike sheds, she didn’t have a leg to stand on.

Kemi was firm, assertive and authoritative

And tg for that. It’s not losing a temper to be these things so I agree with you and pp

Its important not to frame womens spaces as just 'safe spaces'. They are more than that. Its like the idea of having a nurse chaperone a male doctor when examining a patient. If the patient doesn't want to be touched by a man, having witnesses to it wont help.

The idea that women often shared their spaces with men, either unwittingly or happily, is a myth. It really wasn't that common, and i dont know why we are pretending that it was.

These two points feed into the idea that men need those 'safe spaces' too; and that there was a point in time where men with gender were accepted as women - we just need to get back to that time and everything will be fine.

So i do share others frustration that kemi talked about predators and TW, as if separating them will solve the problem. It clearly wont.

I hope shes using the fact that there isnt a way to separate out men with gender from any other man, predatory or not, as a part of the solution. She clearly states that gender ideology is a contested theory.

What is it about some female politicians (the women kind) and smirking?

Patel smirked all the time. Braverman used to smirk. Now watching, I see Noakes with her tiny smirk. It’s an immediate red flag that this person does not have a rational and logical position from which to assert themselves. Instead, they are sustained by an inner sense of unsupported superiority.

In contrast, KB never ever smirks, but responds intelligently and persistently asks for clarity (what do you mean by that).

It will be such a loss to have her gone from her position and I am so worried about what female Labour politician will be given her position.

I thought the ‘more predators than trans people’ was VERY clever. She’s not saying ‘all trans(women) are predators’, she’s not saying that ‘all transwomen are men and men are the more predatory sex’, she’s allowing those who want to join the dots to do just that but not explicitly stating it.

No one can argue with it. And all those who pipe up whenever there’s one of those ‘hypothetical’, ‘vanishingly rare’ incidents of a transwoman getting done for indecent exposure, sexual assault, downloading CSA etc… and who say ‘ah but they aren’t a ‘real’ trans person’ - haven’t got a leg to stand on because Kemi is on the case with those ‘predators’ (without sullying herself with a debate on what makes a trans woman a ‘real’ trans woman)

Her statement brings it back to the simple fact of allowing single sex spaces to exist in law.

Clever.

it is very clever and i am completely on board with it. Because my bottom line is that there ARE people with Gender Dysphoria, in the same way there are people with Body Image Dysphoria - and it is a crippling psychological illness for them.

But that doesn't include Green Party #BlokeInAWig or any of the blue haired enbys crying and flapping their hands in their cars about being "misgendered" and so on. Not to mention the AGPs wanking along to the sound of a woman in the next cubicle having a pee.

Separating the very small number of genuinely trans people from the baying masses is a good move. Because GC as i am - i genuinely feel for people with psychological issues. And i want them to be ok in themselves, and in their 3rd spaces. But first there is an urgent need to get the chaff away from the wheat, and i think KB is hopefully getting that ball rolling.

I'm inclined to agree with this. And normally I don't agree with compromise for the sake of expediency. Particularly in this issue.

But I'm trying to find holes in it and I can't. 'We have to ring fence all single sexes because of predators', does side step who they are, in favour of why they are being allowed in.

On the other hand, it wouldn't address things like all women shortlists, or awards meant for women going to men.

Maybe she will be using different reasons, for different types of exclusion.

I do believe that the big one for transactactivists is bathrooms. Most of them won't be going to prison, or playing top-notch sport, but the bathroom validation is, or could be, a daily occurrence.

So maybe she's reserving 'there are more predators than trans people' for the bathroom issue, and will have a different premise for the other spaces.

There clearly are more predators than trans people, I don't know how Kate Osborne doesn't see that. Saying toilets are mixed sex will allow not just any predator in, but all of them.

The whole accusation that a rise in hate crime against Trans people being due to politicians talking about the issue is so misleading and faulty. Deliberately missing a step in the argument? Or just plain thick? It’s hard to tell. Conveniently not asking why are politicians talking about the trans issues?

When the likes of Isla Bryson is put in a female prison estate. When SJB is threatening violence. When someone in fetish gear turns out to work for the Girl Guides. When a bloke puts on a wig and adopts his ex wife’s last name. When the likes of Lia Thomas wins women’s swimming awards. When we hear about young people being permanently medically injured.

The whole reason there is an increase in talking about transgenderism is wholly and squarely the responsibility of SW and Mermaids (attention seeking in their efforts to be the definitive voice of TI) and TW loudly and spectacularly inserting themselves into female spaces for not very good motives.

Lol at this tweet. What a hypocrite KO is.

https://twitter.com/RobbieTravers/status/1735014755532751318

Now adding in KO as a smirker. Plus, clearly has trouble listening and comprehending. Painful to watch.

Every.

Single.

Time.

I looked at Kate Osborne's X (Twitter) profile last night and she doesn't appear to use the word 'Labour' in it. She calls herself a Socialist - which I think is debatable given she won't recognise the sex classes - and there's a little emoji there of a red rose, but no use of the actual word 'Labour'.

I presume there's history to that.

Agree try this, I think Kemi has played a blinder using this phrase.
Plus her emphasis on the “loop hole” that is self ID, which is causing the issues.

Realistically, how far can she (we) get before the next GE?

And why isn't yesterday's exchange getting more airtime on tv/radio discussion today?

Have a feeling they won’t do anything as they’ll want to use it and a wedge issue during the election. They’ve had years to do something and haven’t.

It’s more likely it takes someone like Kemi to be motivated enough to be on it.

We've all had years to talk about it but generally it’s only been in the last few many have

Kemi was fantastic, the contrast with Osborne who came across as dim, underprepared and utterly brainwashed could not have been more stark.

She didn't lose her temper but she was furious about the blatant lies from KO, and rightly so.