Does feminism have an anti-Semitism problem?

[Fantasyanswer]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/spotlight/does-feminism-have-an-antisemitism-problem/?fbclid=IwAR2Peotm8PwNdTpDdzgW1KXUOCD1YuQ6jiSY2LpBfNMlqcz9hQzq0rYmGgc

I've not had a change to listen to this yet, but thought this may be of interest to some.

I've put this here following on from the previous thread on Sex and Gender about the sexual abuse of Israeli women and girls by Hamas on October 7th.

I think she was trying to show that it's a 'top down' rather than a grass-roots movement. I don't agree with her entirely but I also don't know whether she's antisemitic so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.

I think there are a number of reasons people focus on Israel/Palestine. Partly because it has political associations for the west in general. Many people see it as a problem created in some sense by the west, unlike groups of people who try and kill each other elsewhere.

@etmoiandme fantastic post.

The most obvious answer is that it's reported far more in the press than other international issues such as the treatment of the Uighur Muslims or the hostility towards Muslims in India or the genocide against the Yazidi by ISIS. So people are much more aware of it.

Yes there is an element of what is and isn't reported in the Press, that's for sure. But it's not even close to being the full picture, and I agree with the PP who said it "is very thinly disguised antisemitism".

To use the Syrian Civil War as an example. At its height, it actually was very much front and centre in the media not just the press and TV but crucially, it played out in real-time across social media. It's been horrific, with over half a million innocents dead so far. (There was a dreadful strike in Idlib at the weekend killing women and children in a residential area, but I haven't seen mention of it on Mumsnet, despite it being widely reported).

The thing with Syria is, the dogmatic far-left couldn't bring themselves to speak out against Assad's genocide, refused to accept he'd gassed his own people, and for them the enemy was not the Syrian Govt and its allies but weirdly it was....The White Helmets, a unit of Syrian first-responders. It was a literal smear (I know so many on the left love that word) aided by conspiracy theories. And these were pushed by far-left media funded by Russia and Iran - Sputnik, Grayzone, Morning Star - who, surprise surprise, really don't like the Jews! So yes I'm afraid there absolutely is an obsession with Israel/Palestine and consequently Jews, because for far too many of these so-called socialists it's all wrapped up in anti-imperialist, anti-globalist ideology - and who is the greatest bogeyman of that school of thought? The Zionist!! They basically work on the assumption that because Assad (and Putin) are anti-West/Israel and anti-capitalist it therefore aligns with their own anti-imperialist dogma, which is so rigid and entrenched that a large contingent can't seem to acknowledge the rape, mutilation and torture of Israeli women. Because Israel = oppressor.

The reason for this fixation on Israel I keep seeing is 'well unlike dictatorial countries (like Syria) they're a democracy so should know better and this is why we hold them to higher standards'. But this isn't really a reason, it's an excuse. And a convenient one that serves the purpose of a narrative. But I do agree that the West should be exerting more influence on Israel.

@etmoiandme and again.

A rant from Brendon O'Neil

He's not wrong.

The response of the West’s pampered Israel-haters to the IDF’s marshalling of men in Gaza has been surreal. I swear there’s been more outrage in their ranks over the sight of Hamas suspects in their drawers than there was over those Israeli women whose broken, brutalised bodies were driven through Gaza on 7 October for the mob to kick and spit on. A female civilian’s lifeless body in the back of a truck is ‘resistance’; trying to find the men who had a hand in that racist, misogynist atrocity is a ‘crime’ – that’s the twisted doublethink that now exists in sections of the feverishly anti-Israel left.

www.spiked-online.com/2023/12/11/the-staggering-naivety-of-the-israelophobes/

the twisted doublethink that now exists in sections of the feverishly anti-Israel left

100%.

Ah, Brendan O'Neil. That famous feminist ally.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spiked-online.com/2015/06/11/feminism-and-the-turn-against-enlightenment/amp/

Just for what it's worth, I find his description of how the rape victims were treated objectifying and distasteful.

Those women deserve more than being memorialised as "brutalised bodies".

You don't see that it could be perceived as minimising the humanitarian crisis in Gaza to write "Why fixate on Palestinians when so many people are suffering around the world?"

I find it pretty objectionable

I am talking about something I have noticed going on for well over a decade, Facebook friends and so on sharing pro-Palestinian articles and memes, a bias in the BBC, etc, which does seem a curiously disproportionate interest, which mystified me - in fact about 20 years ago, I remember an American friend of mine complaining about being constantly spammed by pro-Israeli/anti-Palestinian propaganda from friends and relatives back home, and at the time I thought ‘weird’. In coming from America to moving here he went from being dogmatically pro-Israel, to highly critical of Israel and more pro-Palestine. At that point I realised the power of propaganda and biased reporting in making people believe they are arriving at their own independent view, when they are actually being nudged by people with an agenda.

I think the UK left does have a fixation with the plight of Palestinians, I believe they are being unwittingly nudged and that the nudgers are driven by antisemitism to create more antisemitism. Of course people who believe themselves to be impervious to media manipulation will find this opinion objectionable.

it feels quite disturbing to me that anyone should say, effectively, "You should care less about the Palestinians. Caring about the Palestinians makes you antisemitic."

This feels deliberately misconstrued. I am saying - be proportionately caring about Palestinians. If you find yourself caring more about Palestinians than other people in war zones, etc, ask yourself-why is that?

"Ah, Brendan O'Neil. That famous feminist ally."

What an insightful comment.

The thing about George Soros is that he bankrolled strategic litigants across America through the Open Society Foundation, which directly led to the erasure of single sex spaces, the promotion of child transition, fudging the legal recognition of sex, etc. it caused real-world harms. The fact that he deliberately wanted to change society without democratic process shows he is a dangerous man - a megalomaniac. And the fact that he showed no remorse for pretty much single-handedly tanking the rouble makes me think he is a psychopath. None of this has anything to do with him being Jewish. Criticising him for it is not antisemitic any more than criticising Elon Musk is disablist hatred of autistic people.

Yes. Ad hominem arguments are a bit ‘entry level’ for this discussion.

Thank you, good article.

'If images of living men in underwear horrify you more than images of dead women without underwear, I really don’t know what to say.'

Sometimes GC feminists shoot themselves in the foot by not realising who they are aligning themselves with. I've done it myself in the past with Breitbart and got tipped off by an epic poster on here.

Confirmation bias is a powerful thing. It may be that you are all well aware of his politics but just in case always worth saying.

That's a disgusting thing to say. Very divisive. It's possible to be disturbed by both surely

I agree with Brendan on this. And disagree on others.

Stop trying to enforce some kind of ideological purity. It's not an argument. It's just trying to shut people up.

I read your post in precisely the same way as the other poster. It might have been helpful to include more context if you don't want to be misunderstood.

@AdamRyan that's your opinion and your entitled to it.

I however think however he chose to say it you would chose to be offended.

'Distasteful' at least he said something.

I'm allowed to share information. There is no "purity" about it. As a feminist I tend to not be too swayed by the pontificating of men on what feminists should be doing. Especially when those men have been vocally anti feminist in the past. If you want to disagree that's entirely up to you.

I have no wish to engage with you on this post or any other. Please don't @ or quote me again. Thank you.

I can quote you if I like

Well that's horrifying! I just thought he was a harmless do-gooder. More fool me.

Yes, you could more kindly think he believed he was doing good when he sought to bring societal change, but I think changing society this way, through strategic litigation is a red flag. It’s bringing about societal change by coercion, not persuasion, or winning hearts and minds. If you feel okay about it, you must, on some level, hold the ordinary voting public in contempt, and arrogantly assume you know best for people, better than they know what is good for themselves.

I’m seeing lots of active feminists being very vocal on Facebook about the evils of the IDF and the atrocities committed against Palestinian women, and I’ve seen them being absolutely vitriolic towards anyone calling out the disgusting lack of condemnation of Hamas. I’ve seen them failing to condemn the antisemitism of the people they’re marching alongside in a way they wouldn’t if it was any other kind of bigotry or racial hatred.

I’m not brave enough to post what I really think, which is that I’ve no reason to think Israel has any desire to remove my right to live my life as I choose. Can’t say the same about Hamas, and if they do manage to wipe Israel out, they aren’t going to stop there.