Does feminism have an anti-Semitism problem?

[Fantasyanswer]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/spotlight/does-feminism-have-an-antisemitism-problem/?fbclid=IwAR2Peotm8PwNdTpDdzgW1KXUOCD1YuQ6jiSY2LpBfNMlqcz9hQzq0rYmGgc

I've not had a change to listen to this yet, but thought this may be of interest to some.

I've put this here following on from the previous thread on Sex and Gender about the sexual abuse of Israeli women and girls by Hamas on October 7th.

Hah!
Didn’t take long.
Hamas only exist because of israelis violence and oppression.
And it’s also israelis who are pushing the buttons and pulling the triggers.
And no one believes that you actually care for anyone.

“I just want to remind everyone that israel has now murdered 20 000+ Palestininas, thousands are lost and more injured. Among the dead 70% are women and children, yet this board has not have one thread about this.”

@Imnobody4
And I mourn everyone of them . Without the actions of Hamas (<<and the indiscriminate collective punishment by the IDF>>) none one of them would have suffered (<<more than the usual suppression and enforced deprivation>>)”

Yes, some women who call themselves feminists are certainly anti-Semitic. I work with one.

She is in our unbearably bonkers EDI group at work and is always talking vaguely about women’s rights with no real targets or outcomes. She is a big Corbyn fan. Wears a rainbow lanyard and believes trans women are women. Has been out marching every weekend with a Palestinian scarf on. She is vitriolic about Israel and the Jew-hatred is barely concealed.

She’s white, middle class and in her barmy army queer theory & critical race theory world she is extremely privileged. Yet the Jews are more privileged. And misogynistic, violent Jihadi terrorists are the poor, third world cause she’s fighting for right now.

Its fucking galling.

wondered when the thinly veiled antisemitism would appear on this thread and there we have it

I think this question is best answered by Jewish people rather than feminists. Many black women say they feel excluded from feminism but then white women will claim that its not an issue so I could see the same thing happening here.

Where?

I am one of those women. I have supported the Palestinian cause for many years, and now I do not. I don't support Netanyahu either - I hope he gets voted out.

Source from israel, not biased at all….

No there isin’t a ’anti-semetism’ problem among feminists. There is a strong pro-zionism stance on a lot of feminists sites, specially on radical feminist (I count this as one). And I know you said jewish and of course bot all jews are zionists, but they are loud and will always come to israelis/jewish defence, no matter what

Well, assuming you call yourself a feminist, your statement that anti-semitism is not a problem amongst feminists is robustly contradicted by the rest of your post.

like I say, I’ve not had time to listen to the pod cast, but I feel, like others, it’s more a problem of being left wing than a feminist.

I have noticed a problem amongst my rad fem GC circles since Oct 7th. A minority, but there. And despite Filia having a strong VAWG focus, I only remember a vague, quick ref to the ME conflict at Filia and not noticed anything since. Happy to be corrected if I have missed this.

I think the issue is that even if it’s a left wing rather than feminist thing, one would still expect feminists to be able to unequivicably and strongly condemn the sexual violence on Oct 7th and that just hasn’t happened from many who otherwise strongly carry their feminist identity.

Ah those poor Hamas men. They were made to do it! They didn’t want to hit her/ rape, but Israel made them do it!

No one, and especially not feminists, should buy into the ‘ I was made to do it’ excuse from men who abuse women.

I condemn Oct 7th but my DH is now getting very angry about my not worrying about the children of Gaza being killed because 'six women got raped' (I do not condone the suffering of Gazan civilians, far from it and I haven't a clue where he got 'six women' from). I am so angry I do not know what to do about it because nothing he sees contradicts his view - he would not believe the BBC article that eventually admitted they had seen the footage of atrocities and that they happened, but watches Al Jazeera, which is pro-Gaza and has begun to minimize the assaults in Israel, though they were the first to show women with bloodied trousers being put into cars by Hamas. DH said the blood obviously came from the bloodied seats of the cars they had been brought in, or they were bleeding was from a wound in their arm etc (on the back of their trousers?) - and anyway, sex doesn't cause bleeding (and he has dealt with a rape as a Youth Worker btw!).

That's very clearly not what that poster said or meant.

You could quite clearly level the same at Israel - "Israel didn't mean to kill thousands of Palestinian children, Hamas made them do it!"

Very unhelpful comment

There is absolutely no context that justifies the barbarity of the attack committed by Hamas. None.

I will also speak out strongly against anyone who argues there is, particularly when they do so in the context of the deliberately brutal sexual violence committed by Hamas.

I don't think thats what Fantasy means either. Obviously, agreeing with the sentiment that blaming Israel for Hamas is shameful. But it isn't actually clear, now I read it again, that's what Freedom means - they are pretty ambiguous. However, Adam, you aren't. I think you blame Israel rather than Hamas for Oct 7th - at least from what you say/have said.

Feminism as a whole - not. Some specific branches - totally.
I am in central Europe and one flavour of local feminist groups - those most influenced by american woke intersectionalism seem pretty captured.
Which is a bit absurd in the area where WW2 and holocaustu started.

Just because you're a feminist (good) doesn't mean you can't also be anti semitic (bad). However, one does not follow the other.

The left has a well-documented anti-semitism problem.

So as far as leftist feminism is concerned, yes, absolutely an issue that needs to be dealt with.

In general, however, the question is meaningless, because there isn't a coherent movement called "feminism" which shares aims. Those who call themselves feminists don't agree on what they mean by that.

So in that sense, the question is unhelpful.

Does leftist feminism have an anti-semitism problem? Yes.

Does conservative feminism? I don't think so.

Does Jewish feminism? No.

And so on.

@Grammarnut, I'm not sure I could stick around that level of hypocrisy or dissonance.

Thanks. It is quite difficult.

Your husband’s view does sound hugely reductive. The attack by Hamas was far more extensive than that. Experts have presented the evidence to the UN and sexual violence in this attack by Hamas is undeniable.

Either way, your concern for attack on innocent Israelis and his concern for attack on innocent Palestinians need not be opposing view points. They are both atrocious and none permit the other.

I remember you posting about your H before.

From what you have said:

I think your H is looking for any reason to minimise the victimisation of Israelis,

I also think he believes rape is 'not that bad'.

I would find that very hard.

All strength to you.

I think you mean without the Israeli army wreaking revenge none of them would have suffered.
Hamas committed atrocities, IDF are continuing with atrocities. No one has the moral high ground here.

I am probably in the group that would be thought of anti-Semitic.

I unequivocally condemn the actions of HAMAS; the VAWG that was and is being perpetrated; the defilement of bodies.

Simultaneously, using those actions to bomb children in hospital; to dehumanize Palestinians; to justify the asymmetric war whilst insisting on The Purest Victim Ever status is not something I will ever support. Regardless of the word you use to describe it: genocide/ground war/stopping HAMAS the actions are repugnant to me, and unnuanced support of Israels actions is disturbing.

You cannot bomb people into peace; the function of bombing is annihilation.

No. I blame Hamas for October 7th. I think the Israeli response was rushed into, isn't surgical enough in bombings and has resulted in a disproportionately high number of civilian deaths. I also don't think its acceptable to effectively siege the city so civilians have no food or water.

I've never said anything different to that so you either are confusing me with someone else or incorrectly assuming my position.

I take your point and I am probably mixing you up with someone on another thread. Sorry. I certainly blame Hamas.

Thank you. The last thread got quite heated and all kinds of accusations were hurled at me, mainly very wide of the truth.