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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Closet TERFs

67 replies

Donteventhinkofcallingmecis · 05/12/2023 11:26

Saw something on Twitter earlier suggesting that Lineker must be a closet TERF given that he hasn't made any overtly TWAW type comments.

Given that it's easy peasy to flaunt one's gender ideology credentials in the current climate, one can't help but wonder if those who could but aren't are actually in the sane GC camp, but timid/terrified/being gagged by editors/agents.

On which basis - which names would you add to the list?

I'll start.... Caitlin Moran. Conspicuously silent....

OP posts:
kiki50 · 05/12/2023 11:28

Emily Maitlis

Original poster
Donteventhinkofcallingmecis · 05/12/2023 11:34

@kiki50 Want to believe it but not so sure about Emily Maitlis - she has made worryingly captured sounding comments before on The News Agents podcast.

OP posts:
Menstrualcycledisplayteam · 05/12/2023 11:35

I seem to recall that he (Gary Lineker) did say something a little while ago on the "be kind" spectrum, and Sharon Davies gave it to him with both barrels.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2023 11:37

I believe that anyone in the public eye who hasn't made a virtue signalling TWAW "trans rights" statement on social media is probably to some extent sceptical about gender identity ideology in the broad sense. Like most people are.

Original poster
Donteventhinkofcallingmecis · 05/12/2023 11:53

@Ereshkigalangcleg yes - I suspect you're right. But wouldn't it be wonderful to see more of them growing a spine and piping up about it now and then?

A sweepstake on who will be next to break ranks would be fun.....

OP posts:
CountZacular · 05/12/2023 12:06

Lineker is a sportsman, first and foremost. I’d be surprised if he didn’t see the issue, particularly from a fairness approach.

I agree with Eresh on this - if you know you’d get accolades for muttering TWAW but have chosen not to do so in the public eye, then there’s definitely some skepticism there. Which would be more household names then less.

Woman2023 · 05/12/2023 12:35

I work on the assumption that everyone who isn't obviously a TRA is a terf. Even Owen Jones was furious at the idea he should find women sexually attractive just because they say they are men.

StephanieSuperpowers · 05/12/2023 12:54

I can't imagine I'd be inclined to wear my turfitude on my sleeve if I were famous either - imagine trying to work in Hollywood, for example, if you gave any indication that you had some misgivings. Look at James Dreyfus (sp?), for example, and how he's been hung out by colleagues and effectively written out of work he's done.

FourLastSongs · 05/12/2023 13:21

I'm afraid I'm a bit sad about Caitlin Moran. Used to really enjoy her writings and loved How to Be a Woman. If I recall correctly there is a bit at the beginning about all you need to do to find out if you are a woman is to put your hand down your pants (I may be wrong, it was a long time ago and that would not go down well now. )

But she chose to be silent on the whole TWAW thing. IN some ways I don't blame her at all. She's a smart woman and she knew she would be pilloried if she even hinted at any terfiness.
However, if you are marketed as the voice of new feminism, it's pretty rubbish if you don't even obliquely address the biggest threat to women as a sex class.

She may be a terf or a raging TRA of the Be Kind variety but I'm afraid I don't think that you get to be a modern feminist writer and not comment at all on men in women's sports/ prisons/ DV shelters etc. Or at least you don't get to be taken seriously by anyone who has though about it for more than three minutes.

Therefore even though I subscribe to the Times I no longer read her column. I have not bought any of her books, or attended any events. When I have accidentally cone across her writing, I find myself cringing.

She is a talented with a brilliant turn of phrase, but her words are so hollow when I realize that she would rather say nothing about direct threats to women's safety, dignity, and privacy in order to save her own skin. Especially when she has Janice Turner and Hadley Freeman at the same newspaper bravely taking a stance.

I have lost all respect for her.

CorruptedCauldron · 05/12/2023 14:37

Caitlin felt the ire of the trans lobby a couple of years ago when she tweeted about women’s primal fear of men. It came after a devastating murder case - but Caitlin was scolded for forgetting that not all women are adult human females. Cue the backtrack. She’s running scared from the whole issue.

However, her husband Pete Paphides did speak up in support of Roisin Murphy when the TRAs came for her.

Closet TERFs
RomeoandJomeo · 05/12/2023 14:47

kiki50 · 05/12/2023 11:28

Emily Maitlis

I think so too... haven't heard anything too suggest otherwise on the news agents, though could have missed something - hope not.

Froodwithatowel · 05/12/2023 14:48

We'll all be lined up in a stadium singing Eidelweiss and heading for the Swiss border at any minute.

santasknackered · 05/12/2023 15:19

Has Davina McCall said anything? I remember her saying, at the end of the podcast with Steven Bartlett, that there were issues she'd love to speak about but she wouldn't on air, for fear of getting cancelled, or words to that effect.

WickedSerious · 05/12/2023 15:28

Froodwithatowel · 05/12/2023 14:48

We'll all be lined up in a stadium singing Eidelweiss and heading for the Swiss border at any minute.

All together now;Blossom of snooooooow.....

Zimunya · 05/12/2023 15:31

Beth Rigby after her brilliant interview with the Stonewall guy.

Original poster
Donteventhinkofcallingmecis · 05/12/2023 15:35

Interesting about Davina - will take a look. Feels like it would be right, somehow.

@Froodwithatowel - your post made me guffaw. Quite...

OP posts:
teawamutu · 05/12/2023 15:41

FourLastSongs · 05/12/2023 13:21

I'm afraid I'm a bit sad about Caitlin Moran. Used to really enjoy her writings and loved How to Be a Woman. If I recall correctly there is a bit at the beginning about all you need to do to find out if you are a woman is to put your hand down your pants (I may be wrong, it was a long time ago and that would not go down well now. )

But she chose to be silent on the whole TWAW thing. IN some ways I don't blame her at all. She's a smart woman and she knew she would be pilloried if she even hinted at any terfiness.
However, if you are marketed as the voice of new feminism, it's pretty rubbish if you don't even obliquely address the biggest threat to women as a sex class.

She may be a terf or a raging TRA of the Be Kind variety but I'm afraid I don't think that you get to be a modern feminist writer and not comment at all on men in women's sports/ prisons/ DV shelters etc. Or at least you don't get to be taken seriously by anyone who has though about it for more than three minutes.

Therefore even though I subscribe to the Times I no longer read her column. I have not bought any of her books, or attended any events. When I have accidentally cone across her writing, I find myself cringing.

She is a talented with a brilliant turn of phrase, but her words are so hollow when I realize that she would rather say nothing about direct threats to women's safety, dignity, and privacy in order to save her own skin. Especially when she has Janice Turner and Hadley Freeman at the same newspaper bravely taking a stance.

I have lost all respect for her.

Every word of this. She can shove her Cool Girl schtick up her arse.

I seem to remember her gushing about the TW in her MENOPAUSE GROUP and their excellent grasp of accessorising. Which obvs was completely relevant 🙄

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 05/12/2023 15:44

I reckon Jess Phillips. But she hasn't said anything because she's seen what's happened to Rosie Duffield, and has already had someone breaking into her office screaming that she's a fascist.

stillholly · 05/12/2023 15:53

Katherine Ryan

Too close to the LGBT fanbase and community to outwardly comment.

RayonSunrise · 05/12/2023 16:08

I suspect quite a few people who were Team #BeKind a few years ago have quietened down as the Isla Bryson/men in women's sports/paediatric transition stuff has come out.

"No debate" was a useful way to keep people defaulting to supporting the "most marginalised," until they got a good look at who was taking that well-intended loophole and running with it.

HermioneWeasley · 05/12/2023 16:54

Caitlin has said that TW are better women than the old fashioned cunty ones because they’ve had to earn it and she’s said fuck all about rapists in women’s prisons. I won’t click on any of her articles now, I have zero interest in what such a cowardly traitor thinks about anything

HermioneWeasley · 05/12/2023 16:57

Also nope to Jess Philips @StrictlyAFemaleFemale . She amended the counting dead women list to include Brianna Grey and hasn’t said a thing about women needing female only refuges despite her supposed work on domestic violence and has done nothing to defend Rosie Duffield

Froodwithatowel · 05/12/2023 17:01

HermioneWeasley · 05/12/2023 16:54

Caitlin has said that TW are better women than the old fashioned cunty ones because they’ve had to earn it and she’s said fuck all about rapists in women’s prisons. I won’t click on any of her articles now, I have zero interest in what such a cowardly traitor thinks about anything

Good grief. Some women take dick pandering to really embarrassing levels.

GoatsareGOAT · 05/12/2023 17:11

Yep nodding along to HermioneWeasley
IMO -
CM fucking coward/lacks integrity
JP only cares about JP's career & therefore lacks integrity

I think pretty much all adults are "TERFs" (or at the very least terf between the sheets) it's terribly disheartening to discover just how many people will go along with absolute nonsense for the sake of a quiet life/being part of the in crowd.

ItsNotaCabbage · 05/12/2023 17:18

@FourLastSongs agree so sad about Catlin Moran. I know her book “How to be a Woman” was pretty basic but it changed my life when I read it.

She has totally abandoned her loyalties to poor working class women. I find that once people get money and all their friends are wealthy arty elites they can no longer understand the impact these things have on the most vulnerable in society. She is completely out of touch.