Ministers finally agree guidance on trans pupils

[WarriorN]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12776337/Schools-discouraged-letting-pupils-change-pronouns-ministers-toughen-long-overdue-transgender-guidance.html

The first thing you're taught in safeguarding training is that you NEVER promise to keep anything secret.

True. There's been a deliberate (and successful) attempt to deskill teachers and stop them using all the normal safeguarding and pastoral care principles that schools have used for years with other vulnerable children, claiming that children thinking they're the opposite sex must be treated differently.

Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

I am uncomfortable with people not being allowed to choose their own names or make their own clothing choices, within the context of a dress code. And I don't think dress codes should be gendered.

Well, this looks interesting.

I look forward to the response from those who've been advising up until now.

This is about children - most of who wear uniform at school. Many schools (not all) now have unisex uniform requirements.

I disagree with the bit about uniforms.

I think we should do a lot more to reduce gendered expectations about appearance and so all uniform and rules about hair styles should be the same for both sexes.

I agree with not being able to choose pronouns or which sex segregated facilities.

I would like to see schools widening the bandwidth of gendered expectations about personality and preference and helping young people feeling comfortable being gender non conforming

Why would this change any clothing or hair rules? I don't see why getting rid of the regressive sexist trans nonsense means we need to regress on uniform codes.

I am not uncomfortable with children not being allowed to choose their own names or make their own clothing choices.

They are not little adults. They are children.

Well yes. Uniforms should not be gendered. What do skirts and trousers have to do with sex?

I work across a range of schools. By far, the majority have uniforms. The majority have some elements of choice within the uniforms (e.g shorts, trousers, or skirt). Sone specify what girls and boys should wear- this being different. Most that include rules about hair have different rules for boys and girls.

The Equality Act, I think. Children having the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

The issue is that gendered expectations around presentation shouldn't be imposed by schools.

Gender norms and gendered expectations are part of the problem in the first place!

Quite.

I’m fine with children using their given names and wearing standard uniforms.

I sometimes think TRAs believe
being trans makes someone interesting or special. Whatever you identify as, there’s more important stuff to do at school than get het up about your uniform.

There are many schools that get overly het up about uniform.

If the schools insist it matters and make attendance in classes dependent on conformity to their ideas of what pupils should look like, it's not unreasonable that pupils get het up about it too!

About bloody time. Now amend the equality act to make it clear that single sex exemptions aren’t altered by having a GRC

Clothes, hairstyles and names do not have any impact on the dignity or safety of girls.

If a child changes their name, pronouns etc in the classroom, how on Earth can the school ensure that the parents don't find out anyway? How would they expect all the other kids to keep the secret, from their parents, and how would anyone expect them to keep it from the parents?

Honestly, that whole line of argument is silly. If there was even a sniff of a risk of abuse, there are well established safeguarding protocols for the school to follow.

I'd like to know what constitute the
exceptional circumstances

Because as sure as eggs are eggs, the trans lobby will try to shoehorn children into those circumstances.

And does that mean, that no matter what the children say, people don't have to adhere to it? So if a teen says they are non-binary, people can just ignore it? Including their peers, without any comeback?

Because, to me, that will probably kill it all stone dead.

If a pupil says they are non binary, I think a 'OK, and what is your answer to question number 4?' should suffice.

I think there is a balance to be struck between people feeling they have to hide aspects of themselves because they are deemed unacceptable (such as being gay, or not feeling aligned with gendered expectations) and celebrating and making a big thing about it in any given context.

A person's sexuality or gender identity (if they have one or believe they have one), isn't really relevant to the main business of school. It's the school's job to make sure they aren't discriminated against and to ensure the school community is tolerant of difference, beyond that, I don't the the equality act requires much else

The EA isn't about making exceptions for people with special identities, it's about making sure people with protected characteristics aren't discriminated against.

What exceptions do you think there have to be for children with special identities in order to comply with the law?

Is it? But, who is a boy and who is a girl? If schools are allowed to choose when to allow social transition, then what prevents them carrying on as they have been and letting boys into girls changing rooms and telling anyone who complains ‘there are no boys here’?

Ugh, I don’t want to be pessimistic, but it sounds like a massive climb down. Social transition of children in schools is deeply harmful, both to the child with gender dysphoria and to their classmates whose speech is controlled. Anything less than a complete ban is a disaster. This looks to me like they’re trying to appeal to parents who see the safeguarding issues without actually doing anything.

It's not me saying it, it's lawyers.

It's why the trans guidance was delayed when it was meant to be released before the summer.

https://news.sky.com/story/delay-to-government-transgender-guidance-for-schools-after-elements-deemed-unlawful-12923712

Is it? But, who is a boy and who is a girl? If schools are allowed to choose when to allow social transition, then what prevents them carrying on as they have been and letting boys into girls changing rooms and telling anyone who complains ‘there are no boys here’?

Unlike with adults, who can get a GRC, there are no grey areas here. Children cannot get a GRC, therefore there is no legal reason why a male child should expect to be able to access female-only areas and vice versa. Boys are male children, girls are female children.

Social transition is not any sort of legal self-ID of sex.

Allies of the Attorney General, Victoria Prentis KC, said the government's three law officers had advised that because some of the suggested guidance came up against the Equality Act, the government would only be able to go further on this issue if they introduced new legislation.

Is there any explanation anywhere of what they mean by this?