Feminism, rape, and Israel. Content warning.

[ArthurbellaScott]

https://unherd.com/2023/11/metoo-unless-youre-a-jew/

I skipped parts of this article, specifically the first person account.

The rest of it I think is an important read.

Hamas is not the Palestinians.
Might as well have said "How are the British going to coexist with the IRA?" in 1997. Which would be ridiculous and unhelpful.

So what are your helpful suggestions? Hamas and other factions have declared they intend to kill all Jews. Not just in Israel - worldwide. How does anyone propose peaceful coexisting with that mentality?

Hamas’s actions should not be used as an excuse to murder thousands of Palestinian children. Barabaric as it was it should not be used as a Justification for the genocide of innocent Palestinians. White men also rape women and children we don’t bomb white families because of this. Israelis also sexually abuse Palestinian prisoners. I can never support white feminism again as it doesn’t care about the thousands of women killed by Israeli bombs.

This:
I can also understand how the hate is perpetuated, especially in the West Bank. Will 2.5 million people be collateral damage? I pray to God they won’t be.

Writing the potential deaths of 2.5 million people off as "collateral damage" is casual. If that happens, it's deliberate, not collateral damage. And if posters don't want to be questioned about their views, they should be more careful about what they say.

This Memri site gives an idea of Hamas and Iranian thinking, thank you for linking it.

Fathi Hammed, Hamas MP, appears insane and rabid. He hates Palestinians who are followers of Abbas. He rages against the Arabs who have not helped them (thank goodness).

I was trying to look up more about him and came across this, also from Memri,
from 2008 where he specifically boasts that they make women, children and the old into human shields. Surely this filmed admission means admission of a war crime.
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-mp-fathi-hammad-we-used-women-and-children-human-shields

For all his claims about Islam, who ever from Hamas has systematically been encouraging rape and sadism from their terrorist fighters is systematically encouraging those men to lose their souls.

I wonder if the mothers and sisters know what their brothers, fathers, cousins and uncles have been doing? Probably they don’t.

So I've just been told noone wants loads of deaths, now you are saying Jews can't coexist with Palestinians. Anywhere in the world. So what's your solution?

I've read at least half of Israeli Jews descended from Arab immigrants - so not white. I think casting Israelis as white is playing western purity politics

Do NOT put words in my mouth. That is absolutely not what I said.

No, @AdamRyan you are twisting words andputting words in other posters mouths. @ArthurbellaScott has said HAMAS and OTHER (presumably similar in outlook) FACTIONS have declared they intend to kill all Jews. Not Palestinians.

If it wasn't so serious it would be hilarious that the quote you post contradicts what you've written underneath. I have concluded you are not in good faith.

The best thing for Palestinians would be to get rid of Hamas. Hamas are in charge in Palestine. Anyone who wanted to save Palestinian lives would want Hamas defeated as they are the biggest barrier to their security and acting in an extremely reckless way with Palestinian lives (they believe it's for the greater good and doesn't matter how many Palestinians die or they wouldn't use them as human shields). There are other Palestinian politicians, in fact there was an article upthread that suggested most Palestinians would welcome other rulers than Hamas (and presumably that's in a context where they may not be free to speak).

You’re right. Whatever we are it’s always the wrong one.

We weren’t blonde haired, blue eyed and white enough for the nazis (and that was the European ashkenazi Jews), and now Israeli Jews, who include loads of mizrachi, teimani (Yemenite) Jewish refugees from Arab countries, Ethiopian Jews, Sefardi Jews…. are the white.

1. Let Egypt take them in. Those two countries aren’t at war. I think the current experience with the fence being opened up would make that solution impossible. How works Israel know who’s a legitimate civilian and who’s a terrorist?

2. Agree, but the last humanitarian pause just allowed Hamas to refuel to launch more missile strikes.

3. Doubt the bombing could be more targeted. Countries send their troops to Israel to learn how to do roof knocking. They don’t indiscriminately fire into Gaza. There is a panel of non-combatant lawyers who have to approve targets. If they don’t have enough verified evidence then the army don’t get authority to strike. There’s photos available of the evacuation I mentioned up thread where a dentist was called to evacuate his neighbours. You should find the article and read it if you haven’t. It’s devastating that it happened but it was anything but imprecise. More ground forces means greater risk of Israelis dying. No government would want to risk their own people like that. Well, almost no government.

4. Not Israel’s problem. Why isn’t Hamas contacting the Red Cross etc to organise a mass evacuation out of Gaza? Haven’t heard of it if they have. Are they conducting talks with Epypt or Lebanon or Jordan to find somewhere for the innocent Gazans to go? Britain was not responsible for the German civilians during WWII. There is food (at a price) and there’s certainly fuel to fire rockets. Not sure about water. Again, the suffering of the elderly, injured, civilian population is horrendous but it’s not Israel’s responsibility to sort it. Let Hamas do it or one of the seemingly endless supply of international aid organisations who regularly call on Israel to behave while omitting to fully condemn Hamas.

Yes, why isn't Egypt taking in more refugees. Anyone calling for Israel to do it should be calling for Egypt to.

Presumably Palestinians would rather go to Egypt (a country they're not at war with) anyway? Not really putting the Palestinian people first suggesting they go into enemy territory is it?

You are correct.

Indigenous Jews in Arab countries experienced burning of villages, murders and being driven out of their countries. They often were not allowed to take their possession or simply didn't have time to take anything. A large percentage of these Jews arrived in Israel as refugees over the years. I believe the biggest percentage in Israel is Iraqi heritage Jews. Of course there are also Jewish people in Israel that desend from the original indigenous Jews on the land.

The idea of Jewish people being white simply is an uneducated myth

I suspect many men who join these organisations do it because they're interested in violence without impunity rather than any sort of ideology.

So what are your helpful suggestions? Hamas and other factions have declared they intend to kill all Jews. Not just in Israel - worldwide. How does anyone propose peaceful coexisting with that mentality?

So you said this. I'm not sure how I misquoted you? And I'm not sure what you think the solution is. Other than somehow magically vanishing Palestinians

There is a panel of non-combatant lawyers who have to approve targets

I read this article saying the targets are being chosen by AI, and the AI is choosing many more than was formerly the case.

The Gospel’: how Israel uses AI to select bombing targets in Gaza | Israel | The Guardian

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/the-gospel-how-israel-uses-ai-to-select-bombing-targets

1. Why is this Egypts problem to solve? The Palestinians live in Israel. There's no incentive for Egypt to get involved. That's the Israelis passing the buck

1. That's why I said more ground troops, less bombing

1. Israel control the vast majority of the borders, they control the water supply. Palestine isnt a country - the Palestinians live in Israel. So if its not Israels problem, whose is it? "Britain was not responsible for the German civilians during WWII." is not at all comparable and pretty tone deaf given the subject matter.

Heres some quotes that lead me to believe some posters on here dont think you can separate Hamas from Palestinians:

Hamas is a mentality that exists amongst many Palestinians

According to most surveys most people living in Gaza still support Hamas.

It's up to Israel to coexist with the Palestinians [me] How are they going to coexist with Hamas? [Arthurbella]

I can see I might have misinterpreted arthurbellas brusque response to one of my points but that doesn't mean I'm posting in bad faith.

Since 2007 Gaza has been governed by the Hamas Government in Gaza. Israel does not have responsibility for Gaza. Hamas was elected in preference to Fatah.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44124396.amp

Ref Gaza:
Israel withdrew its troops and settlers in 2005, though it retained control over its airspace, shared border and shoreline. The UN still considers the territory to be occupied by Israel.

Anyway, I'm out. I have no desire to derail the thread, I've learnt a lot and it's been useful to get a range of views.

The good old BBC continues its dip feeding bias behaviour

That just reminded me of the whole slur incident since it is nearly Hanukkah

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63541437

Over a million views on twitter and not the only one of its type I've seen this morning.

Christ, that's chilling. There's no evidence that would convince them. It's the narcissists prayer spoken collectively.