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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What's going on with Genspect?

839 replies

MalagaNights · 12/11/2023 17:51

I've seen Stella O'Malley tweet about being unfairly attacked.
I've seen a weird exchange from James Lindsay about feminists trying to take down Genspect.

But I can't work out what's happened or who is fighting with who.

Any ideas?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
45
AlisonDonut · 17/11/2023 20:33

When people show you who they are...

Anything that increases clicks is good for all of them. I'm done with every single one.

ArthurbellaScott · 17/11/2023 20:50

I suppose it's defensive trolling. It's a belter of a blind spot, though.

RhymesWithOrange · 17/11/2023 21:35

x.com/with_rhymes/status/1725568949180334190?s=46

UtopiaPlanitia · 17/11/2023 21:49

RhymesWithOrange · 17/11/2023 21:35

Well said 💐

ArthurbellaScott · 17/11/2023 22:04

Quite.

UtopiaPlanitia · 18/11/2023 01:14

A new article about the Genspect debate and a review of Illy’s book:

https://www.thedistancemag.com/p/sympathy-for-the-devil-with-the-blue

This article’s tone feels all over the place - making some good points, some trite points, some that feel like trolling.

To be honest Illy sounds worse the more I hear about him and this paragraph in the article does NOT describe what I would think upon seeing him at a conference:

'When I saw Phil Illy in the hotel lobby at the Genspect conference on Friday, 3 November, he stood out because of that dress. It was a signal: Come here maybe. I am interesting to talk to. Come here maybe. I am interesting to talk to. Come here maybe. I am interesting to talk to.'

Some more quotes from the article:

'Every manner of boundary that feminists have defended from AGP men in recent years has a history in the literature, it turns out. Men really do fetishize pregnancy to the point of womb envy, ladies, and they always really have, to the point of autogynephilia. Lactation fetish too: Illy describes the phenomenon a little, but without mentioning any health concerns for a baby suckling on elevated levels of male nipple discharge. “Validation” and the resulting euphoria are paramount. Like Tate, boobs are at the center of the AGP equation. “Autogynephillic people are more likely to want female breasts than any other body part.” You don’t say!'

'Some people don’t want Genspect to succeed. They would rather not slay the pediatric transition dragon. They would rather milk the dragon forever, earning clicks and likes and superchats with outrage. It is what they do. Phil Illy understands them perfectly. He was counting on them, and they delivered, granting him days of ‘earned media.’ They want to build his legend even now. Watch them try.'

'Phil Illy does not want the ‘gender critical movement’ (whatever that is) to cohere long enough to have significant impact. “When it does,” he predicts, “gender-critical feminists (aka ‘trans-exclusionary radical feminists’ or ‘TERFs’) and socially regressive political groups [read: Republicans] will disparage autoheterosexuality and push the narrative that suits their ideological goals. They already do.” Actual genocide, in other words. He has to stop us, otherwise he can never get to build his heaven on earth.'

Sympathy for the Devil with the Blue Dress On

A review of Phil Illy's 'Autoheterosexual'

https://www.thedistancemag.com/p/sympathy-for-the-devil-with-the-blue

UtopiaPlanitia · 18/11/2023 01:29

From the article above, Illy wants teenagers given cross sex hormones on demand and no psychological treatment - he’s ideologically opposed to Genspect and would happily see them fail… and the eejits are out there caping for him 🙄🤦‍♀️

Georgeburgess · 18/11/2023 14:55

@PencilsInSpace you seem to think that Genspect work with children but they don't.
Safe Schools Alliance don't seem to understand very much about safeguarding. They just seem to be a twitter account that calls things out in an inappropriate manner?
As a parent who needed help with their affirmative approach to me distressed kid, I wrote to SSA looking for help. They didn't reply twice in a row and then when when i pointed this out, they sent me links to government website. It was not only unhelpful, it made me feel even more isolated. I was thankful when I turned to Genspect and they helped me.

OldCrone · 18/11/2023 16:26

Safe Schools Alliance don't seem to understand very much about safeguarding.

What makes you say that?

I'm not sure if they're really a support organisation though. I think they're more about campaigning and information. If you want support it might be better to contact a group for parents like Bayswater Support Group.

SaffronSpice · 18/11/2023 17:05

Georgeburgess · 18/11/2023 14:55

@PencilsInSpace you seem to think that Genspect work with children but they don't.
Safe Schools Alliance don't seem to understand very much about safeguarding. They just seem to be a twitter account that calls things out in an inappropriate manner?
As a parent who needed help with their affirmative approach to me distressed kid, I wrote to SSA looking for help. They didn't reply twice in a row and then when when i pointed this out, they sent me links to government website. It was not only unhelpful, it made me feel even more isolated. I was thankful when I turned to Genspect and they helped me.

SSA provide a range of template letters and guides for approaching schools. https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/ They are very knowledgeable about safeguarding. They state their concerns are:

  • The adoption of gender identity ideology in schools and its impact on the lives of children, especially girls.
  • The use by schools of RSE materials which sexualise children and promote porn and other harmful sexual practices.

If you were looking for a support organisation to tackle your gender clinic’s affirmation only approach then they were the wrong organisation.

Homepage - Safe Schools Alliance UK

Welcome to our homepage. This explains who we are, what we do and how we are campaigning for a better understanding of child safeguarding.

https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

ResisterRex · 18/11/2023 17:08

Safe Schools Alliance don't seem to understand very much about safeguarding.

It's their bread and butter. HTH.

Georgeburgess · 18/11/2023 18:33

They weren't helpful to me. They didn't offer me templates, just unanswered emails and then links. I contacted them about my school. I see that their out of office reply from the summer is still on, that says it all 🙄

ArthurbellaScott · 18/11/2023 19:14

Georgeburgess · 18/11/2023 18:33

They weren't helpful to me. They didn't offer me templates, just unanswered emails and then links. I contacted them about my school. I see that their out of office reply from the summer is still on, that says it all 🙄

I'd ask for your money back, in that case.

SaffronSpice · 18/11/2023 20:34

Georgeburgess · 18/11/2023 18:33

They weren't helpful to me. They didn't offer me templates, just unanswered emails and then links. I contacted them about my school. I see that their out of office reply from the summer is still on, that says it all 🙄

How dare volunteers not make themselves available 24/7.

Georgeburgess do tell how you are volunteering your time to help others with safeguarding?

RhymesWithOrange · 18/11/2023 21:37

Illy is now grifting on Twitter. What a fucking surprise. How any self respecting woman can have anything to do with him I will never know!

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/11/2023 21:52

SaffronSpice · 18/11/2023 20:34

How dare volunteers not make themselves available 24/7.

Georgeburgess do tell how you are volunteering your time to help others with safeguarding?

SSA, Genspect etc offer general support via their websites & published materials. I don't think they set themselves up as offering much 1 - 1 support for individuals. In some way it's a shame as many of the individuals concerned have professional qualifications in safeguarding and working with children/ adolescents. But offering counselling & therapeutic support requires significant training, supervision, insurance etc and as they are mainly volunteers with other jobs, families etc doing this is a massive undertaking.

Unlike so many of the professionally dangerous lobby groups with their groups for 12 - 19 year olds, adults with a personal investment in transitioning & queer theory who claim to offer "support" for children below the age of consent. 🙄

AlisonDonut · 19/11/2023 09:03

Georgeburgess · 18/11/2023 18:33

They weren't helpful to me. They didn't offer me templates, just unanswered emails and then links. I contacted them about my school. I see that their out of office reply from the summer is still on, that says it all 🙄

I imagine they are utterly overwhelmed with parents contacting them about their school. That's why they sent you links perhaps?

ArthurbellaScott · 19/11/2023 09:16

Reddit for the burgeoning 'AGP as sexuality' movement.

https://www.reddit.com/r/askAGP/

BonfireLady · 19/11/2023 11:49

Dipping back in after a couple of busy days at home.

This thread continues to be one of the sanest navigations available in this current point at which gender identity belief finds itself.

The backlash on paraphilias being normalised appears to be kicking in. Fingers crossed that this continues in the same way that PIE and paedophile sympathisers were eventually stopped. Unfortunately those sympathisers and enablers are still being weedled out. Most recently it was Peter Whilby. Perhaps another well known Peter will soon be seen for who he is on this subject in the public discourse.

As has been said many times before on several threads, there are many parallels with several scandals in history. To add in to the mix: the lobotomy scandal has been mentioned before. I got curious as to how long it lasted end to end, from when doctors were being hailed as heroes and pioneers until it fizzled out and got consigned to its rightful place for the mistreatment of those with mental health conditions. About 40 years was the answer. Treatment for gender dysphoria is more complex because it is firstly underpinned by a belief that "everyone has a gender identity" and then there is the mental health aspect of those who feel that their "gender" differs from their sex(ed body).

One interesting turning point in the demise of lobotomies as the go-to treatment was the re-examination of the known data that showed the following:

...when doctors investigated long-term outcomes for his patients they found that just one-third could be regarded as experiencing some improvement, while another third were significantly worse off.

Coincidentally, the recent re-examination in the Tavistock data on puberty blockers found exactly the same ratios. In both the case of lobotomies and physical interventions for gender dysphoria, it's very difficult to justify any treatment that has this outcome given the inevitable and irrevocable consequences of doing so (physical and mental impairment - plus sterility in the case of puberty blockers when administered from before puberty until the end of the natural period within which puberty would complete). In both cases, the risk/benefit balance just isn't there.

Here's the article from which the above quote is taken:
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-55854145

Hopefully, the fact that paraphilias eventually do get recognised for what they are and we're at this stage of understanding may offer some green shoots of hope.. I just really hope that Genspect takes stock.

Also just to add: as a parent who has made use of Safe Schools Alliance information to challenge the PHSE materials in my daughters' school, I'm incredibly impressed with what they are doing. It's a rather lonely journey trying to help my gender-questioning daughter access good care and exercise her own critical thinking (and knowing that I can't trust education or mental healthcare regarding the bias towards gender identity belief) so it's important to have access to different agencies with different and complementary goals.

Freeman's leucotomes

Lobotomy: The brain op described as ‘easier than curing a toothache’

Tens of thousands of lobotomies were carried out in the UK and US in the 1940s and 50s. Should we condemn the surgeons?

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-55854145

UtopiaPlanitia · 19/11/2023 14:13

TaytoCheeseandOnion · 19/11/2023 09:52

There is a good Blocked and Reported episode on this. Made me think about how i position my opposition to gender ideology.
https://open.substack.com/pub/blockedandreported/p/episode-191-a-man-in-a-dress-in-a?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=n3hup

Tayto, I like a personal recommendation but is it really a good episode? I’ll give it a wee listen if it’s not a 'Complainers are so small-minded' episode but neither of them has much of a clue about safeguarding which makes me want to scream at times.

Katie can be such a contrarian and Jesse is sometimes so open minded his good sense escapes him. Somehow, even though she lived in Britain for a while, Katie doesn’t really grok Terf Island, nor does Jesse. I usually enjoy their internet drama episodes but on this subject they’ve often left me discombobulated because they tie themselves in knots trying to be kind.

2fallsfromSSA · 19/11/2023 16:39

Georgeburgess · 18/11/2023 18:33

They weren't helpful to me. They didn't offer me templates, just unanswered emails and then links. I contacted them about my school. I see that their out of office reply from the summer is still on, that says it all 🙄

I am sorry we were not helpful to you. We do try and help as many people who contact us as possible but we are a small group of women who all have jobs, and families and we simply can answer every single email in the way we would like to be able to. We are unfunded and have been running SSA in our spare time for well over 4 years. We get some donations (thank you so much for those!) which we use primary to be able travel to meetings and, run the website. We have numerous resources on on website which we have written to help parents challenge poor policy and RSE and also to navigate the complaints system at their school. We also signpost people to other groups for support (parents we generally signpost to Bayswater). We can put people in touch with legal representation if they wish. And we advise people to write to their MPs about the problems they are experiencing as well as flagging to OFSTED. We are not able to intervene on individual's behalf, all we can do is advise people and we have written as much as we can to support people through that process. Sometimes we can help individuals but due to the sheer volume of email we receive every day, that is. not always possible.

As much as we would love to be, we are not a support group, we advocate for a safeguarding first approach to be taken. A lot of the work we do is not public.

Thank you for pointing out that our out of office response has not changed since the summer break. I will rectify that today, however the message will be the same - we are unable to support everyone who contacts us individually and we will continue to signpost people to our website which we do keep up to date with news and resources.

Most of our supporters are very understanding. We sometimes do get angry messages from people we have not been able to give as much time to as we would like and whilst we understand their frustration (we have all had to challenge our own schools) we will not engage with those people.

Thank you for the support shown to SSA on this thread. And sorry I have not been around much on MN for the last few months. We are all mothers of teenagers with jobs and other responsibilities and life challenges. We do what we can to amplify our safeguarding first message and provide resources for parents to help challenge their schools policy and RSE.

2fallsfromSSA · 19/11/2023 16:40

As for GEnspect, we posted this in response to The Split article:
https://x.com/SafeSchools_UK/status/1723794527813587166?s=20

https://x.com/SafeSchools_UK/status/1723794527813587166?s=20