What's going on with Genspect?

[MalagaNights]

I've seen Stella O'Malley tweet about being unfairly attacked.
I've seen a weird exchange from James Lindsay about feminists trying to take down Genspect.

But I can't work out what's happened or who is fighting with who.

Any ideas?

And a little reminder of what we do: https://x.com/SafeSchools_UK/status/1726217941895545335?s=20

2fallsfromSSA

Thank you for all that you do.

Be nice if the people being paid fat salaries to devise the curriculum were actually addressing these issues, rather than working parents who are already run bloody ragged.

Yes we quite often say this. What we have achieved as a group of volunteers with no funding at all is amazing. People are beginning to talk the language of safeguarding and are finally getting it. But it's also appalling given that there are people who are paid 6 figure sums to be responsible for safeguarding who are in dereliction of their duties.

It's reflective of the SSA that the answer they write on mumsnet is much longer and more reflective than any emails they have sent to me. The SSA doesn't seem to understand ANYTHING about safeguarding (I've learnt loads about this subject in recent months) as they often break the foundational principles of safeguarding on their twitter account eg proportionality, appropriate target, sent in the correct manner etc etc. Let's face it, SSA is just a twitter account that does no actually work. Imagine changing your summer holiday message in November

Maybe you've missed their countless resources on their website Georgeburgess? All made by unpaid volunteers.

Those of us who work with schools and children are very grateful for the time and effort they put in and their contribution to safeguarding children at a time when countless organisations have abandoned child protection.

Do let us know when you've set up your own resources to support parents in safeguarding children.

It's a major safeguarding fail to set up an organisation that pretends to help but then doesn't have the resources to actually help and then blame lack of funding. SSA should be honest and just admit the truth of what they can and can't do. It's a major safeguarding fail to have out of office replies from summer till November. Its dangerous to pretend to offer help to desperate parents like me but not be able to. Its reckless with people's lives.

Don't be daft, George.

This

Um no it's not. It is if it's a School. Schools have to be contactable at all times.

All the advice they'd give is there on the website for you to use and follow.

As described here:

x.com/safeschools_uk/status/1726217941895545335?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Also, safeguarding is about challenging what we see in front of us when we see it. It's an ongoing process. The general public and parents don't know the ins and out of this, hence the website giving examples and templates etc.

The difficulty some have had with Genspect is that when they've had issues pointed out (and there's been other things not mentioned in this thread) there's more defensiveness than there really should be with children.

Schools have to be contactable at all times. - within opening hours as listed on website.

Ofsted have to be able to get through to speak to someone as that could be a safeguarding issue.

SSAUK don't have children in their care

Set up your own organisation then @Georgeburgess you’re coming across as quite the charmer …

As a desperate parent myself, who felt completely lost at sea when I first entered this whole arena (all I had was a gut instinct that the puberty blockers that my daughter requested seemed like the tip of an iceberg that didn't make sense), I have nothing but gratitude for SSA, and also Transgender Trend, in helping me to step up and find my voice in supporting my daughter in her education setting. I started with her EHCP, for which the Cass Review was helpful as well to reference social transition, and the conversation has expanded since then. The work that the volunteers at SSA have done been a key part of this. Safeguarding is at the heart of all of it and their experience in this area really shows.

Thank you @2fallsfromSSA for all the hard work that you continue to do💐

Wow. what a melon.

@UtopiaPlanitia you may have seen this? "straight out of Kinsey"

https://x.com/uhlerjon/status/1724718641566896534?s=46&t=WHoOZZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Sorry @2fallsfromSSA I hadn't seen this post.

Another aspect here is that private companies delivering cpd, pedagogical approaches, safeguarding training and even aspects of pastoral care such as counselling to schools is rising exponentially.

Added to the fact that the local nhs and the local councils have the capacity to commission services from charities to support aspects of school - such as the proud trust, rainbow schemes, even No Outsiders, it's becoming an infinate game of whackamole.

Senior school leaders would assume the nhs 'has it right' or that the council have done their research.

And that's not to mention how individual teachers might naively pick up a 'nice' book on being kind that actually is about the ideological idea that you can be 'in the wrong body' to read at the end of the day.

A small group of volunteers cannot hold all these people to account individually. New companies are popping up daily. Schools and parents need to be equipped with the skills to challenge as safeguarding is everyone's business.

The latest news that Ofsted May be changing and safeguarding inspections may be undertaken by a separate body, annually, is very welcome.

I can't help but think we are reaping the results of the "sexuality is innate and unchangable, the science says so" approach, which has been very doninant in gay rights from the 80's.

The thing is, we don't really even have a very good scientific definition of "sexuality". The idea that we can say that homo, hetero, or bisexuality are somehow fundamental and natural in either sex, or that these are set before birth, or not culturally influenced, and all the rest - it's just not supported scientifically.

Sexuality is to some extent, and we don't really know how far this goes, a constructed category, and one that isn't particularly historically common.

It's very difficult to "prove" that things like AGP don't belong in the same category when you don't have a clear, evidenced and explained set of criteria beyond "this is how people experience their sexuality whatever the heck that means."

Rights groups chose to run with this idea because it was very successful at creating empathy in the general public. Not because it was the only compelling theory or because it had the best evidence base. So finding that now there are other theories without compelling evidence that people expect to be supported for their social utility, as they see it - well, yeah. That's the precedent that's been set and a whole generation has been taught that is the only moral way to think about issues.

These seemingly small fudges for the greater good bear fruit down the line.

science says so" approach, which has been very doninant in gay rights from the 80's

Is this an instance of what Pratchett and others would have called 'lying to children'?

I often wonder how we handle the disconnect between a narrative that is useful at the time and then obstructs real understanding when it's needed.

The "lie-to-children" concept was first discussed by scientist Jack Cohen and mathematician Ian Stewart in the 1994 book The Collapse of Chaos: Discovering Simplicity in a Complex World.[1][2][3] They further elaborated upon their views in their coauthored 1997 book Figments of Reality: The Evolution of the Curious Mind.[1][2][4] The concept gained greater exposure when they collaborated with popular author Terry Pratchett, discussing "lies-to-children" in the book The Science of Discworld (1999).[5][6]

Cohen and Stewart discussed "lies-to-children" and the desire inherent in society for a view of simplicity with regards to complex concepts in their 1994 book The Collapse of Chaos.[1][2][3][7]

Stewart and Cohen wrote in Figments of Reality (1997) that the lie-to-children concept reflected the difficulty inherent in reducing complex concepts during the education process.[4][8] Stewart and Cohen noted reality itself was viewed within the prism of human perspective: "Any description suitable for human minds to grasp must be some type of lie-to-children — real reality is always much too complicated for our limited minds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie-to-children

I hadn’t seen Uhler’s tweet, thanks for the link, but I did listen to that podcast a while ago and I remember being shocked by Bailey and co’s attitude to this story. In fact, Bailey, Cantor, Burgo, Ayad, Zucker, and O’Malley surprise (and worry) me with how open-minded they are about what seem to me to be dangerous things. I find them very naive about paedophilia, AGP, and other proclivities - I know psychotherapists are supposed to be empathetic but I think they take it too far at times.

Some people are dangerous and misplaced empathy in therapists/the justice system authorities allows them to manipulate and hurt others; Uhler understands that and is very blunt about it.

Thursday 7pm UK time, KJK talking to Stella on Boyce's you tube channel.

I shall be tuning in to see where Stella now lands on this after all this.

That’s going into my diary - thanks for letting us know AlisonDonut 👍

Debate and discussion is good, its much better than seeing people snipe at each other through blog posts or on Twitter - so I’m glad this is going ahead.

Wish it wasn’t Boyce hosting it though - I increasingly think he’s using GC women/campaigners to build his channel; based on his sexist tweets that I’ve seen, I don’t think he cares about women’s rights too much.

Yup. I can't stand him. I tried so much not to.

I don't know why he is involved at all.

Wish it wasn’t Boyce hosting it though - I increasingly think he’s using GC women/campaigners to build his channel; based on his sexist tweets that I’ve seen, I don’t think he cares about women’s rights too much.

Totally agree. I thought he was a decent, sensible kind of bloke but lately he hasn’t been able to resist taking potshots at feminists and is clearly being entirely self-serving when it comes to platforming women and detransitioners.

For the views/likes etc.?? I think he was surprised at how well his early GC interviews went in terms of viewership and he’s been riding that train ever since, cos it raises his profile 🤔

After Genspect’s conference, Boyce was trolling women who were arguing that Illy was a safeguarding concern, and he was sucking up to James Linsdsay like a comedy sidekick when Lindsay was failing to 'take down' KJK, on Twitter 🤷‍♀️🙄 So, in terms of a 'debate moderator' will he be great at being impartial?

At any rate, I’m still glad that Stella and Kellie-Jay are entering into public discussion - it’s a hopeful development.