What's going on with Genspect?

[MalagaNights]

I've seen Stella O'Malley tweet about being unfairly attacked.
I've seen a weird exchange from James Lindsay about feminists trying to take down Genspect.

But I can't work out what's happened or who is fighting with who.

Any ideas?

I think I’ve seen on X that they platformed some cross-dressing males, and the fact that there were trans widows in attendance, some feminists think it was inappropriate.

Yes I've read a bit more now.

I think they shared a photo of a man in a dress who was attending? I don't think he was speaking though.
But he is a self declared agp I think.

I'm not sure Genspect or any conference can police people's clothes though can they? Only behaviour?

Loads of discussion here with some good insights.

https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/511150/what-happened-at-the-genspect-conference-with-the-agp

I find this a difficult one actually. Because on the whole I believe everyone should be able to dress and present themselves any way they please. A man in a dress is still a man, a butch woman is still a woman. However, I do understand the argument that AGPs walking around in women’s clothes are dragging other people into their fetish without their consent. I find it a hard line to draw.

From what I understand: It's primarily around the fact that Genspect is 'for' a wide range of people - including children.

And, should an org that's 'for' children, platform and be 'working' with people who say they have AGP. As this doesn't sit right at all from a safeguarding perspective. Boundaries, safeguarding etc.

(I say 'working' as I'm very hazy about what has happened there. One particular guy who is out as an agp attended the conference and was photographed in garb, but may have been at a social afterwards I read. But that's still uncomfortable/ inappropriate for a org supposedly working with/ for children.)

Obviously transwidows have been on the end of abuse by their agp ex's, many very severely so. They've done a lot with Debbie Hayton.

There was a twitter space which I heard quite a lot of and did agree with the criticism I heard from a safeguarding children's perspective. It was said that Genspect had been trying to advertise to schools in the past (I don't know if this is still the case or much about that, only what I heard there.) and I personally don't think that is appropriate.

I also think initially some detransitioners felt there wasn't enough representation from them this time.

There has been an insinuation that they believe in "true trans" as a result of platforming certain trans people which also has implications for children, but I'm not actually sure that's a fair assessment of their position.

Boyce has framed it as rad fems saying no one can be gender non conforming. (And as such are as bad as TRAs). But that's not what the issue is. James Lindsay has been a bit of an idiot on twitter there. Blames women for creating gender ideology.

Some seem to be saying all the above means that the document Genspect have created to challenge WPATH 8 that needs feedback on, is just WPATH version 2.

Unfortunately that document has been somewhat buried by everything that's been going on which is a shame as it it's both likely to be a million times better than WPATH and is asking for comments.

From Stella O’Malley:

https://genspect.org/the-split/

It's made me think quite hard - some commentators (who I now know do not know much about the individuals they named) appear to be saying that any male who is trans or GNC and is effectively presenting as such at that conference is agp.

And that by having trans people there who are GC, it means that Genspect believes in "true trans."

But the amount of interviews and research Genspect have done, and working with trans people and detransitioners, makes it very hard not to have these people there.

There has been no alternative gathering of advocates and researchers and experts to challenge WPATH, which is what they're essentially doing.

The document:

WPATH's SOC 8 is a radical document, deleting its ethics chapter, removing minimum age recommendations for medical transition, and including a chapter on “eunuch gender identity.”

Here, @ ngusdair presents @ genspect's new alternative: the Gender Framework.

x.com/swipewright/status/1722325526734377218?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

www.realityslaststand.com/p/the-end-of-wpath-introducing-the

"Last weekend, I had the immense pleasure of both attending and speaking at Genspect’s “The Bigger Picture” conference in Denver, Colorado. The speakers, a diverse group of medical experts, biologists, journalists, and parents, share concerns about the sudden increase in trans identities among youth and the prevailing ideology and "gender-affirmative" medical treatments for gender distress.

For too long, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) has been the sole provider of medical guidance for individuals experiencing distress about their sex and “gender.” Concerningly, WPATH advocates for a highly medicalized approach to treating gender-distressed youth, explicitly foregoing exploratory psychotherapy in favor of puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgery.
Genspect is determined to break WPATH’s ideological monopoly on this issue. To that end, they have assembled a team of experts to develop a non-medicalized alternative to WPATH’s Standards of Care 8. I am honored to have been selected to write the first section, “Sex and the Body,” which anchors the entire Gender Framework in biological reality and counters the common activist arguments that there are more than two sexes beyond male and female or that the categories of male and female are not distinct but exist along a continuum. My focused work writing this section is largely responsible for the lull in content here on Reality’s Last Stand last month (sorry!), which will now resume as before.
It is with great pleasure that I present the following article by Alasdair Gunn, Vice-Director of Genspect. He outlines the contents and significance of their new and historically significant Gender Framework, which was unveiled during the conference. Its publication is set to be recognized as a pivotal moment when the tide began to turn against WPATH and their radical agenda.
Colin Wright
Founding Editor, Reality's Last Stand"

How is this any different from Debbie Hayton being at Battle of Ideas?

Oh, and there were children at Battle of Ideas. Not many, but some .

Over the years both sides have hardened their positions, if you annoy both sides of the argument you're probably doing something right.

Genspect are showing the nuances of this whole issue and creating an environment where opinions can be freely expressed, not censored.

https://twitter.com/autogynephilic?lang=en

This is the man who is a fetishist who is aroused by wearing women's clothing, at the conference in women's clothing?

I see.

*self confessed fetishist, I meant to add.

Great. I am free to say this man was performing a fetish in public, and involving other people as participants in his non consensual sexual fetish, then.

How is he involving other people?

With him, if he knows he's agp, why perform and wear the costume as such? If he knows the harm it can cause? Especially at such an event?

For me it was that the genspect twitter/x account said that we should check out his book. Having written a book about his AGP fetish and his name being "autogynephilic", it seemed to me that they are almost promoting his fetish.

Pretty strange behaviour for an organisation who want to guide children who are gender confused.

How is he involving other people?

Wearing the clothes in public is a big part of the fetish. Its being seen.

Missed that bit Woman2023. Inappropriate

The thing I don't get is this:

Almost by definition being a GC feminist means not thinking that wearing a dress has anything to do with being a woman. The people moaning that a man in a dress (who is not claiming to be anything else) is 'skinwalking as a woman' are not being Gender Critical- they are being Gender Affirmative.

I understand the concern that this particular bloke seems like he might be performing his fetish in public (so perhaps criticism here is fiar) but there are an increasing number of people claiming to be 'Gender Critical' (they always seem to forget the feminist bit) who oppose any kind of gender non conformity- a contradiction in terms.

Yes. It's equivalent to wearing bondage gear. Not appropriate for a conference.

Thanks all I've read a bit more.

I'm actually more I favour some gender conformity than most on here e.g I don't think boys should be allowed to wear dresses to school and men in dresses makes me uncomfortable regardless of whether they're agp or not.

I'm fine with boys dressing up and experimenting with all sorts of clothes outside school and I don't mind men wearing feminine fashion e.g Harry stylesesque.

But I just don't see how we could try to control what people wear. We can't judge motivations or apply rules based on motivation.

Even if a man is openly agp as long as his behaviour is lawful we can't complain. We can't control other people's sexual thoughts, only boundaries around behaviour.

Personally I wouldn't choose to be around such men and if I was, such as at a conference or work, I would be civil & professional but seek to get away from them as soon as possible.

I'm free to dislike this kind of performative dressing but I don't want to live in a country where we ban it. Or where we claim other people's thoughts harm us.

If a man in a dress at a conference is talking to me thinking 'wow she thinks I'm a sexy lady' he's deluded and his deluded thoughts about me are non of my business.

Unless and until he says or acts in a way which tries to involve or compell me in his delusion.
Then he can fuck off.

I think it's very unhelpful to focus on this one individual and assume, therefore, that Genspect aren't doing good work. I'm a regular donor because I'm so grateful for their support and that of the Gender Dysphoria Support Network as I've navigated the stress of having a DC questioning their gender identity. I've met many other parents for whom they've also been a lifeline. It's a huge relief that organisations like Genspeact are fighting this insanity on our behalf while we try to prevent our families from falling apart.

The difficulty is it's normal clothes that many people are wearing and which are socially acceptable.

What if someone has a foot fetish and loves exhibiting their feet in various sandals etc? They may be getting a thrill but sandals and heels are normal attire.

And if the sexual thrill is only thoughts, no behaviour is it really anyone else's business?

We can't police people's sexual thoughts at work.