Women's rights general conversations - Thread 7

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 6.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

Oh, that's very sad.

Not entirely surprising, though - I was expecting it to be long gone when I checked at the time of the original discussion.

From the experience I had, intelligence had little to do with being drawn into a cult, it was more the longing for community. I was a smart kid, but lonely and I wanted a sense of belonging. For a short time I was drawn by the Jesus Centre and all the friendly people who welcomed me with open arms and made me feel included (sound familiar?). I'm so glad I backed away in time.

yes i agree @Vegemiteandhoneyontoast . I know of two people who were drawn in to cults. They were usually vulnerable in some way (difficult family situations) and they felt they were receiving the love and support and friendship they craved. I can see how that happens. I've lost track of one person I knew but the other I am still in contact with finally exited after only a few years even more broken and damaged.

@MouseMinge I've enjoyed all the Cormoran Strike books - very different from Harry Potter.

Amendmemt to yesterday's info on Brighton Centre loos: there are also men's loos upstairs, so not actually more provision for women as I originally thought but still not bad.

I've noted that - although it's a women's conference and there are almost no men around - all the women are still going into the women's, not the everyone's.

On cults, I was going to say, (and please don't shoot me down for this), doesn't being GC make anyone else feel a bit culty? When friends/family say, I take your point duc, but don't you think you're exaggerating about the importance of this, and I say, I can send you a link to this good piece in Unherd (or whatever), I am uncomfortably reminded of other friends saying, just let me send you this great piece by/about Jordan Peterson*, or chem-trails, or whatever.

*Jordan Peterson may be right on gender (so is Farage!), but I do think he's a deeply odd man.

@duc748 I have also encountered this reaction in a conversation with somebody who works in academia and is pretty captured.

I get your point Duc, but maybe it's like the quote someone once said about narcissism;

"If you're wondering if you are a narcissist, you probably aren't one"

I know, for me, I've constantly questioned myself (and others of similar opinions) on the road to taking my current stance- and there's still some flux in it!

(Hadn't directly asked myself "Am I in a cult?" though 😂) You've got me thinking now!

I think I'd be more worried if I'd read this board, and all those articles, and formed my opinion wholesale based solely on those first, rather than discovering them with relief when I had such a strong, questioning/sceptical reaction to the "new narrative' when it first appeared.
Or if I hadn't read into and considered the counter beliefs too.

I guess there's something in the feeling very isolated (in this questioning), initially, and vulnerable (discombobulated and confused by it- the whole cultural shift)- and experiencing the welcoming arms of somewhere like FWR. All you anonymous gurus.

Also, unlike most cult scenarios, being GC (I do prefer sex realist these days) is not my whole identity, and I can still bear to hang out with people who I know don't share my beliefs. So I take that as a good sign. Although I do do the article sharing! (Only if it comes up though- not unsolicited)

And, I've absolutely no desire to move in with you all. (Unless you're really tidy and can cook and have a swimming pool)

I get where you're coming from @duc748 and it's crossed my mind but we don't have a belief other than a belief in actual science. In terms of reality we don't have to shift anything to shape our reality, unlike the GI beliefs. We don't deny science, so question use/overuse of puberty blockers, for example. We don't ignore detransitioners, TRAs either do or claim there aren't many, or, worst of all, see them as some sort of apostates to the true cause. There isn't one true TERF "belief", in fact there seems to be some kind of "schism" going on on Twitter* at the moment which must mean we truly are left wing because that's par for the course with any lefty group ever, although feminism is similar.

We're far from perfect but you don't get shunned for not adhering to "bible" of belief.

*Not 100% sure what it's all about but I think it has something to do with AGPs and in particular a book recently written by one that people are reacting to very differently.

Also what @DameMaud said. I didn't get pulled into this but started to find people who were questioning in the same way I was and it was such a huge relief. We've not been indoctrinated, we've found like minded people.

In fact I had a negative reaction to a post of someone I follow on Twitter this week. Kristen Stewart is on the front of a magazine this week. She's looking quite, I don't know, butch-femme? Her hair is shortish, open shirt and jacket, boobs partially visible but no nips. She's wearing jockey pants with one hand down them.

Someone had put this photo next to a photo of Elliot Page, the one with the open shirt, chest, scars. The jist was that Kristen is going down the same path. There are similarities to the photos but they're slim. Page is trying to look boyish, Stewart is trying to look sexy in a grunge/androgynous/big dyke energy way. She's messing with stereotypes is how I see it. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe this time next year she'll be Kelvin Stewart but I seriously doubt it.

I'm not going to unfollow the person, although I would if it became a thing, I just disagree and think that it definitely is possible to become obsessed but it's an individual thing, not a group delusion.

Thanks, Brit, Mouse and Maud, good points all Especially the one about narcissism! 😃Certainly, we have The Science. Unfortunately, that's not enough these days.

I see it this way, if all of the disparate people labelled GC fell off the planet, sex would continue to be real.

Exactly. Reality is that which goes on existing even if you stop believing in it.

As a waffler, I very much envy (and appreciate) the succinct.🌟

something for the weekend

https://twitter.com/Jonnywsbell/status/1758542410496254249?s=19

Spades at the ready! For Women Scotland have been granted leave to appeal the Haldane judgment
https://twitter.com/ForWomenScot/status/1758462083832639848
I'm sure there's probably a thread on the board already, but I've not had a chance to have a read yet.

It's doing well

Rather well!

Big donation from JK makes up the bulk of that. Once again putting her money where her mouth is.

I'll donate when I'm properly awake.

On the cult front, I've been resistant from a young age. I concluded that I was an atheist at 10, I had some science books and lapped up Life on Earth and refused to go to Sunday School by 11.

I was also very cynical before that age, what with life experiences.

As a teenager, I had a flat, which got Scientology pamphlets, which were hilarious. It was all, "You're mad, blah blah, give us loads of money and we'll cure you.'

I often had street preachers trying to convert me and I argued evolution with them.

For some reason, nobody has ever asked me to join a cult or whether I'd like some drugs.

I lived in Camden for a few years. Everyone I shared that house with was regularly offered drugs on the street. Everyone¹ who visited us would get offered them somewhere between our house and tube. Me? Not once.

I had a few school friends in churches that were at least cult-adjacent, who would invite me over and - oops, turns out that's a church night. I'd sit politely unless directly engaged with, and never outwardly giggled at the speaking in tongues and falling over after being touched² by the holy spirit. It was an interesting anthropological experience But any pastor attempting conversion got the logic cannon. And questions - I had read the bible thoroughly and could easily get a solid half hour out of it against a bible literalist, if they had sufficient stamina.

¹ Including my mother.
² Clouted quite hard, by the look of it.

Same here, StephanieSuperpowers! The shame of it! 😂

I was once asked if I needed any when at a party. I can remember being unable to answer the woman because I thought it was so obvious I wasn't the type.