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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

White supremacist patriarchy to blame for Palestinian deaths, declare Sisters Uncut

98 replies

IwantToRetire · 03/11/2023 01:55

(The Times article headline actual says that this is what feminists are saying, so part of the point in posting is because this headline is sloppy reporting implying all feminists think like Sisters Uncut... and there are no commenting options.)

Explaining its alignment with the Palestinian cause, Sisters Uncut said: “As intersectional feminists we know our struggles are connected; nobody is free until we are all free. The same colonial logic of white supremacist patriarchy that oppresses feminists the world over is murdering Palestinians right now, through isra*l’s [sic] racist apartheid settler-colonialism.”

More recently, the group has campaigned for the rights of transgender people and minorities. On its website, the group describes itself as “women and gender-variant people who live under the threat of domestic violence”.

In July it supported Sarah Jane Baker, a transgender rights activist who told a Pride event to “punch a Terf” [trans-exclusionary radical feminist]. Baker had previously spent 30 years in prison for kidnap and attempted murder. Baker was later acquitted of a charge of inciting violence in connection with the Terf comment.

Other members of the “joint struggle bloc” include Soas Detainee Support, which supports detained immigrants, and the social justice group Land In Our Names. Also listed are the Dyke Project, which describes itself as “a collection of trans, cis, non-binary lesbians and queers of all persuasions”, Queers for Palestine and London Trans Pride.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sisters-uncut-pro-palestine-protests-feminism-oppression-london-32qcf0s5g

Full article can be read at https://archive.ph

So just to repeat I am not posting this to aggravate the really strong feelings the terrible situation between Israel and Gaza is provoking. But because it is an example of how over the years Sisters Uncut, through mounting sucessful media eye catching events, leads to false reporting that they are representative of feminism/ists. The reality is that their political practices is to piggy back on other events, an example being of their gate crashing the peaceful and respectful Sarah Everard event, intentionally to provoke the police now means the media, as in this article, say it was their event. I would have thought the Times would have higher reporting standards than this. Which makes me wonder what their motive is in reporting what seem to be so many supportive articles about women's sex based rights.

White supremacist patriarchy to blame for Palestinian deaths, declare feminists

The women’s organisation that held a pro-Palestinian blockade at Liverpool Street station in London has formed a “joint struggle bloc” with Black Lives Matter,

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sisters-uncut-pro-palestine-protests-feminism-oppression-london-32qcf0s5g

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 06/11/2023 08:09

Holeinamole · Today 03:25

If fuel is running out in Gaza, how can Hamas still fire so many rockets?

I've seen that quite a lot and the answer is that diesel isn't rocket fuel.

Boilingover24 · 06/11/2023 08:14

This would never be tolerated if they were white and this is crucial.

Disagree. What about the Armenian genocide? An ethnic cleansing/displacement has just happened. I don’t recall anyone in the west giving much of a shit about it. There are elements of racism in the conflict for sure in both sides. But it can’t be shoehorned into the BLM world view I’m afraid. To do so somewhat does deny the complex history of the region and the displacement/ genocide of both peoples. That said I absolutely do not support the Israeli government’s actions. I do believe they are committing a genocide. I just don’t understand why we need to try and shoehorn it all into western identity politics

PurpleChrayne · 06/11/2023 08:22

headstone · 06/11/2023 08:03

Boilingover24 so sad people like you cannot see the racism is this conflict, whilst quick to point out antisemitism. The ethnic cleansing that started it based on race. Their identity erased based on race. The apartheid based on race and now a genocide based on race. Sadly western leaders are ok seeing all these children murdered and starved based on religion and race. This would never be tolerated if they were white and this is crucial.

I'm not sure where to start with this level of ignorance. Apartheid and genocide are words borrowed from other contexts that absolutely do not fit what is happening.

You have swallowed islamist propaganda and it's quite worrying.

headstone · 06/11/2023 08:23

Boilingover24 western government response is crucial in this conflict, USA are financing it, western governments are giving the moral go ahead and support l. I don’t know much about the Armenian genocide, but this is an example of whites supporting a genocide but physically and morally and this is in part because of our past history colonisation.

Ofcourseshecan · 06/11/2023 09:02

2Rebecca · 05/11/2023 20:17

Sisters uncut were keen to protest GC feminist events in Edinburgh. I don't recall them protesting any men's events. They don't like women who refuse brainwashing and who don't want to be led by males. I think women at sisters uncut meetings have to do a mea culpa speech about how unworthy they are because of "cisprivilege" plus most women in Scotland are white so that's another "privilege" to apologise for.
Keep those women begging on their knees boys.

Yup, that’s ‘feminism’ the SU way.

Also, as Wellfancy said, SistersUncut were that crowd who raised a considerable amount of money after the Sarah Everand vigil and called for the immediate release of a list of women prisoners. At least 5 of said women prisoners were transwomen (male) prisoners who had committed sex offences offences against women and/or children.

Abhannmor · 06/11/2023 09:20

Boilingover24 · 06/11/2023 08:14

This would never be tolerated if they were white and this is crucial.

Disagree. What about the Armenian genocide? An ethnic cleansing/displacement has just happened. I don’t recall anyone in the west giving much of a shit about it. There are elements of racism in the conflict for sure in both sides. But it can’t be shoehorned into the BLM world view I’m afraid. To do so somewhat does deny the complex history of the region and the displacement/ genocide of both peoples. That said I absolutely do not support the Israeli government’s actions. I do believe they are committing a genocide. I just don’t understand why we need to try and shoehorn it all into western identity politics

This. And the wars in the former Yugoslavia dragged on for years with massive civilian casualties in eg Sarajevo. Chechens are white . Putin flattened Grozny and other cities.
Why is the EU not rushing to embrace Armenia? Oh that's right , they're not being attacked by Russia. People often ask why Muslim countries don't take in the Palestinians. The same could be asked of the Christian west.

I think Sisters Uncut are trying to project a bit here.

Holeinamole · 06/11/2023 09:31

Sure, diesel isn’t rocket fuel but clearly Hamas is prioritising its military operations over the well-being of civilians in Gaza. Every rocket fired is inviting a counterattack, and it does nothing to halt the Israeli ground offensive. Where’s all that rocket fuel from in the first place?

The idea that ‘white people are supporting genocide because Palestinians are brown’ is just not serious. It really is a lot more complicated than that. For a start, Israelis could be regarded as racially ‘other’ themselves. If there is some supposed white racial solidarity, then we haven’t seen much of it in the twentieth century when white people slaughtered each other in the millions. How many Russian soldiers and civilians died in World War 2? Look it up if you don’t know.

And you can’t really understand the modern Middle East without knowing about the genocide of the Armenians. I guess in a very binary, racialised world view, you’d suddenly be confronted with a ‘brown’, Muslim nation trying to eliminate a ‘white’, Christian people, and you’d get terribly confused.

Truly, humans don’t need racism as an excuse to kill other humans. Greed, resentment and cruelty usually do the job just as well …

headstone · 06/11/2023 09:51

Holeinamole I think we can over complicate it, it is complicated, surly everyone can agree it’s not right to kill a child every 10 minutes in the hunt for terrorists. The fact that so many people think it’s ok is because of their own racism and islamophobia. The Palestinians have been successfully dehumanised.

slore · 06/11/2023 10:50

headstone · 06/11/2023 08:03

Boilingover24 so sad people like you cannot see the racism is this conflict, whilst quick to point out antisemitism. The ethnic cleansing that started it based on race. Their identity erased based on race. The apartheid based on race and now a genocide based on race. Sadly western leaders are ok seeing all these children murdered and starved based on religion and race. This would never be tolerated if they were white and this is crucial.

What an ignorant comment. Stop applying America's Critical Race Theory to other countries.

Holeinamole · 06/11/2023 10:51

The phrase ‘killing a child every ten minutes’ makes Israeli soldiers sound like calculating, emotion-less precision killing machines, with the sole intent of killing children - tick, tok, another child dead - and I suppose that’s the intended effect. Isn’t that also dehumanising?

I don’t have family connections to Israel, Palestine or the wider Arab world, but I know people who do and have friendships across the divide. They are working really hard at the moment, treating one another with extreme delicacy, to maintain this human connection. I really respect them for this.

PorcelinaV · 06/11/2023 10:52

What is actually driving the conflict, according to the Hamas Charter, is their Islamist supremacist ideology, where they think they have a "religious right" to steal land in warfare.

I think that's "colonialism" by the way.

This kind of Islamist ideology would also involve a "religious right" to invade Spain etc., in addition to destroying all of Israel.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 06/11/2023 10:59

I would love to see Sisters Uncut campaign for lesbian, trans, queer and womens rights in Gaza and the West Bank.

I wish them every success in their endeavours in relation to that.

PorcelinaV · 06/11/2023 11:02

Some polling on Palestinian attitudes from 2009:

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2009/09/10/rejection-of-extremism/

"Bin Laden also has the support of most Muslims in the Palestinian territories (52%), but a much more solid majority of Palestinian Muslims had confidence in him in 2003 (72%)."

Declining Support for bin Laden and Suicide Bombing

Many fewer among Muslim publics express confidence in bin Laden or support violence against civilians in defense of Islam

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2009/09/10/rejection-of-extremism

EmpressaurusOfCats · 06/11/2023 12:14

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 06/11/2023 10:59

I would love to see Sisters Uncut campaign for lesbian, trans, queer and womens rights in Gaza and the West Bank.

I wish them every success in their endeavours in relation to that.

Except that they’d only really be campaigning for trans & queer. Because lesbians are Nasty Bigots.

SinnerBoy · 06/11/2023 12:27

I'm not sure where to start with this level of ignorance. Apartheid and genocide are words borrowed from other contexts that absolutely do not fit what is happening.

As we've been through on some of the dedicated threads, various NGOs have cited, for instance, the Geneva Conventions, particularly VI, the Hague agreements, Article 8 of the Treaty of Rome etc, etc, etc.

It's not you - or indeed me - who gets to define what it is or isn't. International lawyers, specialists in humanitarian law and the laws and norms of warfare say that you are most definitely 100% wrong to claim that it's not genocide.

RebelliousCow · 06/11/2023 12:38

TempestTost · 06/11/2023 00:48

Lots of identities revolve around a sense of displacement, it's one of the best ways of creating an identity. And entirely possible to have this kind of identity while also having citizenship in a country, or having other nested isentities.

I'm just not sure what you are getting at, it seems like you are suggesting that a sense of identity that emerges like that can't be real or valid or something?

What I'm 'getting at' is that the Palestinian 'identity' is a relatively recent construct.

slore · 06/11/2023 14:04

@IwantToRetire there would be nothing wrong in itself with Sisters Uncut adding their voice to stop the bombardment of Gaza.

Except they are supposed to be a feminist organisation, and their take on the situation is (a) completely uneducated, and (b) only tangentially related to feminism, once again making feminism about everything but women's rights.

They're basically spouting bullshit, jumping on the latest woke cause du jour for attention. Their voice adds nothing of feminist value, or any value. Promoting the erroneous narrative that this is a white vs brown, coloniser vs native situation contributes to actively damaging public understanding of the conflict.

headstone · 06/11/2023 18:12

Well I think anyone who opposes this genocide is right even if they are wrong about other things. Isreal is wildly seen as a coloniser across the Middle East. If it wasn’t why is it funded and protected by USA? Why are they moving in Americans all the time?

Holeinamole · 06/11/2023 20:18

If you’re really interested in the deep historical and present-day reasons behind US support for Israel, there’s a book you can read, by American academics John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, called The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy.

It’s not uncontroversial but worth engaging with. But the idea that the US supports ‘colonisers’ by default really doesn’t make sense. Check out what happened during the Suez Crisis in 1956.

Stomacharmeleon · 06/11/2023 21:44

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Stomacharmeleon · 06/11/2023 21:45

@headstone they aren't random Americans. Are they?

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