White supremacist patriarchy to blame for Palestinian deaths, declare Sisters Uncut

[IwantToRetire]

(The Times article headline actual says that this is what feminists are saying, so part of the point in posting is because this headline is sloppy reporting implying all feminists think like Sisters Uncut... and there are no commenting options.)

Explaining its alignment with the Palestinian cause, Sisters Uncut said: “As intersectional feminists we know our struggles are connected; nobody is free until we are all free. The same colonial logic of white supremacist patriarchy that oppresses feminists the world over is murdering Palestinians right now, through isra*l’s [sic] racist apartheid settler-colonialism.”

More recently, the group has campaigned for the rights of transgender people and minorities. On its website, the group describes itself as “women and gender-variant people who live under the threat of domestic violence”.

In July it supported Sarah Jane Baker, a transgender rights activist who told a Pride event to “punch a Terf” [trans-exclusionary radical feminist]. Baker had previously spent 30 years in prison for kidnap and attempted murder. Baker was later acquitted of a charge of inciting violence in connection with the Terf comment.

Other members of the “joint struggle bloc” include Soas Detainee Support, which supports detained immigrants, and the social justice group Land In Our Names. Also listed are the Dyke Project, which describes itself as “a collection of trans, cis, non-binary lesbians and queers of all persuasions”, Queers for Palestine and London Trans Pride.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sisters-uncut-pro-palestine-protests-feminism-oppression-london-32qcf0s5g

Full article can be read at https://archive.ph

So just to repeat I am not posting this to aggravate the really strong feelings the terrible situation between Israel and Gaza is provoking. But because it is an example of how over the years Sisters Uncut, through mounting sucessful media eye catching events, leads to false reporting that they are representative of feminism/ists. The reality is that their political practices is to piggy back on other events, an example being of their gate crashing the peaceful and respectful Sarah Everard event, intentionally to provoke the police now means the media, as in this article, say it was their event. I would have thought the Times would have higher reporting standards than this. Which makes me wonder what their motive is in reporting what seem to be so many supportive articles about women's sex based rights.

This article by Hadley Freeman is very relevant to this thread https://www.thejc.com/author/hadley-freeman-1.478704

@slore

and around 25% of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi Jews

No expert but I have seen it said to be much higher than that. (Which would only help the point you were making.)

This article by Hadley Freeman is very relevant to this thread

I think the problem with this article, and in fact I am surprised that those wanting to present a Jewish or pro Israel sentiment, resort to this failed arguement.

Not in any defence of Sisters Uncut, but going on a demo or having a vigil or signing a petition against Israel's disproportionate (and possibly illegal) bombing of citizens (they majority of those who have died in Gaza have been women and children) doesn't mean that they are in any way pro Hamas.

Its a sort of whataboutery, to avoid having to accept, as even the hostages' families have (70 of whom may have died as a result of Israel's bombing) that Netanyahu's government (that include religious extremists who oppose women's rights), have made a political blunder.

I respect Hadley Freeman as a journalist, but thought this article weak.

Sisters uncut were keen to protest GC feminist events in Edinburgh. I don't recall them protesting any men's events. They don't like women who refuse brainwashing and who don't want to be led by males. I think women at sisters uncut meetings have to do a mea culpa speech about how unworthy they are because of "cisprivilege" plus most women in Scotland are white so that's another "privilege" to apologise for.
Keep those women begging on their knees boys.

I think women at sisters uncut meetings have to do a mea culpa speech about how unworthy they are because of "cisprivilege"

In a way if they weren't so upleasant it would be funny how desperate they are to try and not appear to be what they are.

All they do is negate other women. I suppose to prove they aren't one of those they really are part of!

@IwantToRetire

Not in any defence of Sisters Uncut, but going on a demo or having a vigil or signing a petition against Israel's disproportionate (and possibly illegal) bombing of citizens (they majority of those who have died in Gaza have been women and children) doesn't mean that they are in any way pro Hamas.

Quoting from the article:

Campaigning for the rights of the Palestinians is not the same as campaigning for Hamas. But it is genuinely mind-boggling that Sisters Uncut and others of their ilk aren’t making the obvious connection here, and campaigning AGAINST Hamas.

Yes, Israel is bombing Gaza – we’ll get back to that – but it’s Hamas that is specifically failing to protect its citizens, embedding in heavily populated areas and saying the tunnels are only for Hamas fighters; it’s Hamas that failed to make any provisions for its citizens before it launched its attack on Israel; and it’s Hamas that has oppressed the women there for as long as it’s been in power.

...

Anyone with eyes and a brain is horrified by the thousands of deaths in Gaza, especially those of the children.

Everyone wants peace, and for all citizens – Israeli and Palestinian – to live without fear. But if anybody knows how to get rid of a terrorist group, whose charter calls for a Jewish genocide, without fighting and bloodshed, speak up now.

Because quick reminder: there WAS a ceasefire, until Hamas broke it on October 7 by storming into Israel and slaughtering and kidnapping innocent people.

Hamas leaders have said they will do it again and again until Israel no longer exists, because they are psychopathic terrorists who want to wipe out Jews and don’t care about their own citizens. That is why this war is happening.

So all of these protesters and politicians shouting for peace and a ceasefire would look less deluded if they offered any plan for how to achieve this, because without that, they might as well make a wish on a dove.

Unless looking good matters more to them than doing good, in which case, by all means, carry on guys.

Gazans will never accept the harms caused to their citizens by Hamas. They will always blame Israel and the West for everything. Some of this has already been listed above, but it also includes hoarding foreign aid for their leaders, who live a life of luxury while ordinary citizens starve. Also, using destroying donated infrastructure (£100,000,000 EU donated plumbing) to create bombs, while blaming Israel for a lack of water.

Similarly, Israelis will never accept the harms caused by their own government. They will always blame Hamas/Palestine/Iran/terrorists. In this case, the Israeli government were warned days in advance about this attack, and failed to respond (almost as if they wanted an excuse to retaliate against Gaza to distract Israeli citizens from their mass uprising against the hugely unpopular legal reform). When they did respond to the massacre at the music festival, there was a delay of many hours despite Israel being a geographically small country. This could have been entirely prevented.

Finally, both Hamas and the Israeli government are arrogantly belligerent and happy to rile their neighbours at the expense of their own citizens. Gazans should partly blame Hamas for invading their much bigger and more powerful next door neighbours, knowing what the response would be.

And the Israeli government has been getting away with undiplomatic and antagonistic behaviour for a long time, knowing that they have the automatic backing and tax-payer bankrolling of the USA behind them. They should be more able and willing to negotiate rather than just using brute force and consistently behaving in ways that are offensive to the international community. Their current behaviour in Gaza for example, is far more about revenge than keeping Israel safe and is actively creating massive hostility against Israeli citizens and Jewish people all over the world. Their response to this is to double and triple down with their vengeance, using self-defense against the anti-Semitism they are cultivating as a justification.

Doesn't change my point about those objecting to Israel's bombing of citizen's which by the way many of the hostage families object to.

Although not in the same numbers previous Israeli governments have negotiated, sometimes taking years, to get hostages returned. Although not in anyway acceptable for the hostages, negotiations do not make civilians collatoral damage.

And in fact, which many Israelis and members of the Jewish community have said, the horror of the bombings mean the hostages are pushed off the front page of internatonal news. And even if Hamas is totally obliterated, the further hostility Israel (or rather the Government) has created will mean a new grouping will emerge with anti Israeli aims.

Imagine the impact if Israel hadn't started bombing, and ever day the focus of news was on the hostages and their families. Terror whether at the hands of a group or a state is still terror. Israel portrays itself as being a more advanced country but has shown it isn't. Would the UK Government every said in response to the IRA bombings on the UK mainland, our only option to stop this is to bomb residential areas of Belfast or Derry irrespective of death and injuries to civilians?

Why would the Israeli government have thought it would help to have daily reports of the number of civilians they are killling, at the expense of the hostages being the focus.

Which has led to speculation that this was an existing plan looking for an occasion to implement it, or in view of recent contracts signed with oil companies, getting access to the huge natural reserves of gas below ground in Gaza.

Would the UK Government every said in response to the IRA bombings on the UK mainland, our only option to stop this is to bomb residential areas of Belfast or Derry irrespective of death and injuries to civilians?

That's not the same kind of situation.

I don't know about you, but if my country was being rocketed and invaded by a hostile terror group that had control over a neighbouring territory, I would expect from my government that they go do a regime change.

That's an entirely proportional response to the situation in my opinion.

Lots of identities revolve around a sense of displacement, it's one of the best ways of creating an identity. And entirely possible to have this kind of identity while also having citizenship in a country, or having other nested isentities.

I'm just not sure what you are getting at, it seems like you are suggesting that a sense of identity that emerges like that can't be real or valid or something?

That's an entirely proportional response to the situation in my opinion.

Its not proportional at all is it. I am not going to be so crude as to compare numbers but if you look at them of course it isn't.

And it isn't supported by the Israeli population, it could lead to the country ending up in a war crimes court, Israel is being bankrupted - and it isn't going to work. Another manifestation of Hamas will just re-emerge.

And as I say, not that I usually speak up for the UK Government, they didn't bomb areas of Northern Ireland where it was suspected the IRA was embedded, and they are also directly parallel as whether you think it is or not, both "terror" groups felt they were fighting for liberation from an occupying power.

And worth remembering that it was only when women got involved in the peace process, that any advances were made.

Its not proportional at all is it. I am not going to be so crude as to compare numbers but if you look at them of course it isn't.

It's not about "only killing" the same number of civilians. That would be ridiculous. The goal isn't to kill any civilians.

If someone comes at you with a knife, and you shoot them dead, it's not, "that's completely disproportionate they hadn't even cut you!".

I think the point another poster made is that there are still substantial rocket attacks coming out of Gaza. I think since 7 October, about 8000 rockets have been fired on Israeli cities from Gaza, as far away as Tel Aviv. That’s not trivial - how can any state be expected to do nothing in the face of this? Don’t get me wrong, this is a terrible war, with only horrid choices available, and I feel sorry for all involved.

Sorry, it was PorcelinaV

I think since 7 October, about 8000 rockets have been fired on Israeli cities from Gaza, as far away as Tel Aviv.

I'm not meaning to be flip about this, but prior to 7th October this was already happening. That's why Israel has its "iron" dome. Which clearly isn't a normal day to day situation as most of us know, but that is / was the reality of the unresolved situation of Israel and Palestine.

If someone comes at you with a knife, and you shoot them dead, it's not, "that's completely disproportionate they hadn't even cut you!".

Well in the UK the police have to disarm people with a knife without a gun. I know the US culture is to resolve everything with firearms but hundreds of other countries dont.

Your comments are just a reflection of your attitudes.

And to repeat many Israelis say the response is disproportionate.

Obviously if you want to follow the politics of one of the most right wing Governments Israel has ever had that's your choice. But you, and more and more they, or not representative. But an illustration of how events escalate.

• According to the Ministry of Health in Gaza, 9,488 people have been killed since 7 October, of whom 70 per cent are women, children and older persons. Over 24,158 people have been injured. This is in addition to 2,000 people reported missing, presumably under the rubble of destroyed buildings, including 1,250 children.
• On average, a child is killed and two are injured every ten minutes during the war.
• Overall, nearly 1,400 Israelis and foreign nationals have been killed in Israel, according to the Israeli authorities, the vast majority on 7 October (OCHA).
• The health system in Gaza is collapsing due to a lack of fuel, medicines and supplies, damage to health facilities and hospitals and to roads and infrastructure, which makes transporting the injured to the hospitals almost impossible.

https://www.unrwa.org/resources/reports/unrwa-situation-report-22-situation-gaza-strip-and-west-bank-including-east-Jerusalem

Women and newborns bearing the brunt of the conflict in Gaza, UN agencies warn
As of 3 November, according to Ministry of Health data, 2,326 women and 3,760 children have been killed in the Gaza strip, representing 67 per cent of all casualties, while thousands more have been injured. This means that 420 children are killed or injured every day, some of them only a few months old.The bombardments, damaged or non-functioning health facilities, massive levels of displacement, collapsing water and electricity supplies as well as restricted access to food and medicines, are severely disrupting maternal, newborn, and child health services. There are an estimated 50 000 pregnant women in Gaza, with more than 180 giving birth every day. Fifteen per cent of them are likely to experience pregnancy or birth-related complications and need additional medical care.These women are unable to access the emergency obstetric services they need to give birth safely and care for their newborns. With 14 hospitals and 45 primary health care centres closed, some women are having to give birth in shelters, in their homes, in the streets amid rubble, or in overwhelmed healthcare facilities, where sanitation is worsening, and the risk of infection and medical complications is on the rise. Health facilities are also coming under fire – on 1 November Al Hilo Hospital, a crucial maternity hospital, was shelled.Maternal deaths are expected to increase given the lack of access to adequate care. The psychological toll of the hostilities also has direct – and sometimes deadly – consequences on reproductive health, including a rise in stress-induced miscarriages, stillbirths and premature births.

https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/women-and-newborns-bearing-brunt-conflict-gaza-un-agencies-warn

When Russia shelled a maternity hospital in Ukraine, there was worldwide horror and condemnation.

When Israel did it to Gaza, it's, "Meh."

If fuel is running out in Gaza, how can Hamas still fire so many rockets? I don’t think the Iron Dome catches everything, either.

As for the reactions to Israeli actions, there are numerous demonstrations in the UK, every week, that’s hardly ‘meh’!

I understand it’s hard to discuss this topic dispassionately but for me some things don’t add up. There are two wars being fought here, one on the ground and a war of perception and spin in everybody’s head.

It’s a bit absurd to conflate taking a Keir Starmer-ish position on this conflict with supporting Netanyahu and his far-right allies … just saying.

"white supremacist patriarchy that oppresses feminists the world over"
Well, pardon me for having a thought in my head but I was under the impression that the patriarchy oppresses women WOMEN not just feminists , who (we've been told repeatedly) can be anyone. It might've been a nightmare but I'm sure I saw a pic of Kier Starmer wearing a "this is what a feminist looks like"t shirt.
Another day another mangling of the meaning of words to the detriment of women.

@IwantToRetire I take issue with a lot of what you are saying as fact....
We don't know factually that hostages have been killed in the bombings. We have the Hamas health ministry's word for it. I would be highly surprised if that were true. I would be surprised if some where still in the country. They will be a prized possession. Protected at all costs as they are the only bargaining chip.

You talk as though vast swathes of Israel are against the war. That is just not true. There are a minority that aren't. And the hostage families that ideally just want them home. And those that are angry that they weren't protected but most (at the moment) are behind Bibi. I admit he will go after this and hopefully with him the right wing coalition.

Twice you have said it's not supported by the population. Can you back that up? I have family there and that's not what they are saying....

All of those little points you made could have been changed by Hamas not being in government. There was a ceasefire they broke for this to occur. A massacre they inflicted on Israel to get to this situation. Infrastructure they refuse to invest in as they are to busy warmongering. Water, fuel and food they could provide. Women and children they could protect in the interim by providing bomb shelters. You think they don't have the resources, the wealth?

The problem is Hamas. And Hamas needs to go.....

Ah SistersUncut were that crowd who raised a con siderable amount of money after the Sarah Everand vigil and called for the immediate release of a list of women prisoners. At least 5 of said women prisoners were 5 trans women (male) prisoners who had committed sex offences offences against women and/or children. They are not feminists.

And addressing the 'sisters uncut' part of this..... it's everything that's wrong with some of the participants of these marches.

Literally not a clue. A privileged position.

Idk anything about sisters uncut but this is a viewpoint I’ve seen time and time again on SM from people I follow. I find it very problematic to view a conflict such as this through white and black/ colonialism. It really seems they shoehorn anything to fit their narrative. Some of the views I’ve seen certainly tip into antisemitism and I would argue even holocaust denial, though if accused they scream that it’s a way that oppressors use to shut them down. I suppose it’s the Dianne Abbot school of thought. Silly whiny Jews, they don’t know what oppression is because most are ‘white seeming’ people. Black and brown people are the only people that have ever been oppressed and colonised.

Boilingover24 so sad people like you cannot see the racism is this conflict, whilst quick to point out antisemitism. The ethnic cleansing that started it based on race. Their identity erased based on race. The apartheid based on race and now a genocide based on race. Sadly western leaders are ok seeing all these children murdered and starved based on religion and race. This would never be tolerated if they were white and this is crucial.