Butches against transpohobia

[Catsanfan]

I saw a woman wearing a T shirt saying 'Butches against transphobia' today. It astounds me that some lesbians would think that way. I wonder what she would do if presented with a penis on a date?

What bathrooms?

The only bathrooms I know of are all in private residences.

If you assert they have the right to the "bathroom of their choice", then you have to be claiming that anyone who identifies as trans has the right to walk into other people's houses to use their bathrooms, provided they really really want to use that house's bathroom.

That fits with all your other posts on this forum, but it is trespassing, at the very least.

OK, what do you think it has to do with gender critical "people"?

What do you think "gender critical" means?

There is no such thing as a toilet, or a "bathroom" which matches any kind of gender identity. There are sex segregated facilities which are there for the safety and dignity of biological females.

As soon as you allow even one trans woman to use these spaces they immediately become mixed sex spaces and women no longer have their own spaces.

it's a legal right that transgender people currently have

Show me where this 'right' is written down.

I have provided evidence of where EHRC describes how service providers are entitled to make single sex exemptions in changing rooms, toilets, and other services. There is also legislation on workplaces and public buildings that talk about facilities being provided by sex.

You have made this strong assertion several times and cited no evidence at all.

Where did you get this idea from?

Maybe Dadjoke isn’t from the UK? Because transgender people definitely do not have a legal right to a ‘choice of bathroom’ here on Terf Island.

Unless they are selecting a new suite in B&Q, obvs.

Reading @DadJoke's posts, I wonder whether people like Naomi Klein's apparent confusion over the gender critical feminist position comes from a very simple error in communication.

It's not that the gender critical position is difficult to understand.

It's that they do not actually understand what gender critical means or who is gender critical.

Gender critical does not mean "hates trans people" or "distrusts trans people" or even "believes biological sex is real and important".

There are people who believe biological sex is real and important who are in no way gender critical, and yes, some of them beat up trans people.

They have nothing to do with us, they are not gender critical, and we are not responsible for their behaviour.

Expecting gender critical feminists to accept gender identity theory and all that goes with it if we want to distance ourselves from the kind of people who beat up Noah Ruiz is like expecting vegetarians to start eating meat if they want to distance themselves from Hitler.

All feminism is based on the critical analysis of gender relations. All of it.

This is the invevitable result of what happens when transphobic hatred is stirred up

So I guess you'll blame yourself for stirring up hate against gender critical women next time a TRA attacks a feminist standing up for women's sex based rights, then? It's happened quite a few times now, and appears to be escalating. Maybe you should ponder if you're on the side of good.

Violent attacks by TRAs against feminist women have that I can remember off the top of my head happened in:

U.K. (both in England and in Scotland)

Canada

USA

Spain

France

Australia

New Zealand

Please anyone help me out if I've missed any.

it's a legal right that transgender people currently have

It isn't though.

@MargotBamborough
What does this story have to do with gender critical feminists?
Seriously?!
Pretty obvious that it's a direct result of making people use the toilet for their sex which most people on here want, even if they present as male.
So much for the usual "we can always tell."

Yeah, not every person who thinks people should use the correct toilets for their sex is critical of gender. Ask Bud Light. Violent men are not gender critical feminists.

Sorry, what?

Because women want female only spaces, it's our fault when some male thugs on another continent who are neither gender critical nor feminists beat up a trans man?

Is there anything that isn't women's fault?

Reminiscent of when I got told by a male poster on here that I was personally responsible for Proud Boys v Antifa outside Wi Spa.

These people are unbelievable.

Ah, the first item on the list of The Rules of Misogyny, ‘Women are Responsible for What Men Do’

https://4w.pub/the-rules-of-misogyny/

How depressingly familiar.

Just because there isn’ta law against something, doesn’t mean it’s a right, does it?

Did men use to have the right to upskirt women? Or was it simply that society changed and the laws took a while to catch up?

This is at least partially due to TRAs deliberately conflating basic transphobia with gender critical

Of course. There is a concerted and deliberate effort to try and force team feminists with various groups. It's all just more ad homs.

Afaik, Its not a conflation, they literally view acknowledging biological reality and differences between the sexes in and of themselves transphobic

Most of them don’t actually listen to or read any viewpoints from the other side so it’s all just transphobic noise to them, hence left-leaning British TERFs are lumped in with Bible thumping American fundamentalists. If they would examine the actual arguments they would be able to see the differences in opinion. One huge and obvious difference being that your average British TERF celebrates gender non-conformity and many would describe themselves that way, whereas conservative religious folks really don’t like men in eyeliner or women with short hair.

Most of them don’t actually listen to or read any viewpoints from the other side so it’s all just transphobic noise to them

Yes, that's exactly it. Having spoken to lots of people complaining about "TERFs" on social media, a lot of them don't seem to really understand what any of it is about, they just parrot TRA phrases and then run away.

Hang on, they're lumping bisexuals, NBs and queers (hate that word) into one group? Fuck that! I'm bi and I am not impressed, (and I wouldn't date anyone trans either, no matter how pretty/good looking I thought they were.)

Although those stats are funny! Het women and gay men would date a man, het men and gay women would date a woman, colour me surprised! 🙀

Yes I'm shortening things, I'm tired and can't be arsed with long words. 😅

Well I read the first page of this thread and then the last, but I am SO glad I then clicked back through the last few pages, and have LOLed like a LOLtwat on LOLing-gas.

Thank you, funny wimmin xx

Don't you see? Women are always responsible for abhorrent male behaviour. Always