Butches against transpohobia

[Catsanfan]

I saw a woman wearing a T shirt saying 'Butches against transphobia' today. It astounds me that some lesbians would think that way. I wonder what she would do if presented with a penis on a date?

I don't think anyone is suggesting you shouldn't use it to describe yourself. Just that you shouldn't use it to describe anyone else unless you know for sure that they also identify as "cis".

It doesn't mean "not trans".

You cannot say that 'cis' is not valid.

Oh I can, I just did. I don't accept it as anything more meaningful than saying one is a goth or an emo. Women are female. Males are not. There aren't two sexes of women and two sexes of men.

Alright, forget I said "identity". In what way do Jill and Jane have "femininity" in common?

By the way, when I was trying to get pregnant I had to inject myself with HCG. If my husband had taken that injection himself and then peed on a Clearblue, it would have said "pregnant". By your logic, my husband and I would have had "being pregnant" in common.

but equally you don't get to say I can't describe myself that way.

I didn't. But I don't have to think of it as a legitimate real word thing.

'Not trans' is exactly what it means (though I will admit something that does slightly confuse me is when non-binary people say they are trans: trans/cis is inherently a binary distinction, one meaning 'on the same side' and the other 'on the other side') I would never insist that someone self described as cis, any more than I would insist they self described as trans.

You have a guardian angel. You can dislike it (i'm not sure why) but it is real. You don't get to say it doesn't exist and I can't say you have one.

You will go to hell for your beliefs. You can dislike it, but it is real. You don't get to say that it doesn't exist and that I can't tell you that you're a sinner and will go to hell.

How is what you're saying any different to this? Or any less insensitive and superior? And for the very slow of thinking/comprehension those were examples .

There is one hell of a lot of trading going on here on people being too nice to behave as badly as gender ideologists feel so very entitled to. There is a line between 'nice person who will try to be fair and does not want to hurt feelings' and 'gullible twit/co operative victim'.

Saying "I'm a cis woman" literally just means you're an adult female who doesn't identify as a man or claim not to have a "gender", doesn't it?

Not trans' is exactly what it means

No it doesn't, because if that was the case, absent a belief in gender identity ideology, a "trans woman" is a biological adult female person who identifies as a man.

It doesn't mean "not trans", it means someone who has a gender identity which matches the genitals they were assigned at birth.

We don't need a word for "not trans" any more than we need a word for "not Swedish".

In Swedish, the word for 'not swedish' is presumably whatever the Swedish is for 'foreigner'.

As a forty year old female person who's apparently never come across the idea that a large number of people don't think simply declaring yourself a woman is what makes you one, I'm curious what use you think your in group label "cis" has for most of us @JaneGainsborough ?

I'm interested in this too, because, for the first time in the 48 years I've walked the earth I think I might not BE a woman according to some.

How ridiculous.

But I'm not Swedish and to my knowledge no one on this thread is Swedish.

And frankly, if the whole world started referring to me as a "not Swedish woman" at the request of Swedish people, I would tell the entire population of Sweden to fuck off.

I don't label myself by what I am not, and I don't consent to other people labelling me that way.

Indeed. And pompously lecturing those of us who are lesbians about lesbian & gay history while being factually incorrect.
I suppose it's all part of self ID - self identifying as an "expert" despite their every word demonstrating the opposite.

Again, we have nonsense doublespeak being pushed as a "progressive evolution" of language.

The point of the word is to reframe female women as the oppressors and the new, improved, male women as the oppressed.

Whereas I would laugh and not care, because 'not Swedish' is just something that I am, like 'not short' and 'not white' and 'not artistic' and 'not trans'. I can tell this discussion is going round and round, and frankly I'm not the one who is upset by it. The OP asked a question, I answered based on my experience of my lesbian friends, and I got a million replies telling me what was wrong with that. OP, if you were really that curious about the woman's t-shirt, you could have (politely) asked her, rather than asking here and then not believing what people told you.

There are so many of us adult human females about (with various personalities) you’d think we’d have a word that describes us collectively!

Bit weird that we apparently don’t get to use ‘women’, now that some trendy committee somewhere has decided that ‘women’ means ‘adult human females who don’t say they are men and adult human males who say they are women’.

Ah yes, the new-improved-bepenised-women!

Well I'm not male and to be honest to you the word woman does the job just fine.

Trans women are male.

Women do not need special prefixes nor do we need to pass a femininity test!

Sounds like Goldie Lookin' Chain were right all along

To be honest I just wish men and their allies would stop fucking changing the language that women use to describe themselves.

I find it demeaning and misogynistic that we are being told to change our words because some men demand it. No thank you.

Really?

You wouldn't be annoyed by that at all?

What if Swedish people considered that they were terribly oppressed and the point of the descriptor "not Swedish" was to mark everyone else out as being more privileged than them and therefore duty bound to be super extra special nice to Swedish people?

If you were, say, from Somalia and you had undergone FGM at age 7 and left school at 14 and had six children by the time you were 25, wouldn't you be even a tiny bit offended by these people from Sweden (with their excellent healthcare and education and other state benefits and their right to live and work in over 30 other European countries) labelling you as "not Swedish" in an attempt to claim that they were the most oppressed and that you were privileged compared to them?

I am not ‘not trans’, Thank you very much!

I am a non-man
😃

How about that.

I would also like to know what femininity is. Asking for myself.