Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 8

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21😇
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language - This witness did not give evidence.

Witness for JP:

SE - Professor Sarah Earle, Head of the HWSRA

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

Thread 6
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4921308-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-6

Thread 7
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4922765-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-7

They do no work and their only job is to have sex with a queen. Then their genitals explode. If they aren't fortunate enough to die of postcoital genital explosion their wings get chewed off by the workers at the beginning of winter and they get kicked out of the hive so they are not a drain on limited resources.

I must say, I feel a bit sorry for the male bees. Even if they lived a cocklodgers life, no one deserves that end. 🐝🍆💥

Ooh, have you tried it?

Daft thing is, all the senior management people I’ve met seem like normal (well, normal for academia Grin ) and decent sorts.

You don't work where I do then. The heads of professional services departments and registrar all appear to be sociopaths.

I also wonder if it was raised in advance by OU’s legal team because some of their witnesses were concerned about being misgendered.

I haven't been able to yet because someone in my house has eaten all the nice bread. But I shall be trying it asap with some very local honey.😉

Just catching up after finishing work. I want to add my thanks to all those who've explained what's been going on, and made it comprehensible. Well, apart from the closing statements... Cheese and the good biscuits to everyone. I like L'Affinage Du Fromage - they sell a lovely single Gloucester.

I did not know about male bees genitals exploding. Interesting. But a risky google search so I will have to take your word for it.

Then their genitals explode.

Thanks for that, I just loudly snort-laughed on top of a very crowded London bus.

Damn, how frustrating.

I too am feeling rather sorry for the drones, despite all the sex they get. Must be my #BeKind social conditioning.

Good luck Jo, thanks Ikky - and I want to get my raclette out later and melt me some cheez.

I had the Open University’s HR and EDI Heads down as more on the sociopathic side after following this case.

I think of the whole hive as one organism in reproductive terms, so the drones being kicked out at the end of useful life is no more significant than shedding hairs.

The queen gets a pretty raw deal too. When the queen gets to the end of her egg reserves, the workers will "ball" her. They make a cluster with her in the middle and beat their wings to generate heat, killing the queen with thermal stress. The workers will "queenify" a few of early stage larvae by extending their cells and feeding them royal jelly, a food rich in phytoestrogens. Then those queens will hatch and fight and the last queen standing gets to go on her mating flight and then spend the rest of her life eating and laying.

Agree about the queen, she spends her entire life being pushed about by the workers and being told what to do. Doesn't sound like much fun.

Is there a Cliff Notes version of this case. Boss has so far resisted any discussion of all things trans, but had some batshit stuff through from staff network. I mentioned this case, and how big bosses get sucked into tribunals when the lower downs go all Lord/Lady of the flies.

I told him that the VC had been sucked in, and there are 3 tribunals in the works.

He went a bit pale.

Dont think he has the patience for TT, do we have anything more digestible?

There is no doubt that life as a bee is pretty brutal, worker, drone and queen. They do exhaust themselves. A summer bee lives for only about 6 weeks, 3 weeks as a nurse bee and 3 weeks as a forager. In her lifetime she will collect enough nectar for barely a single teaspoon of honey.

Please, let's not start on about what honey actually is/how it's made!

@ickky and to everyone who spent so much time keeping us updated live from the Tribunal a very big thanks. You are exceptional, you really are.

Our hearts are with you Jo, as they are with Almut Gadow, and Pilgrim Tucker, who also have cases to come against the OU.

We will do our utmost to support you all.

There's Almut Gadow at OU.

There's another case I would be quite interested in, though not concerning OU: James Esses (a former barrister turned counsellor) who is claiming he was dismissed from his counselling course for wanting to protect access to counselling for children with gender dysphoria. He is also represented by Reindorf.

James is another excellent place to garden

I've learned so much following this - thank you from me too, to all involved. What a rollercoaster...

I've only skimmed this last thread, but after feeling a bit tempted to skip most of it & jump to these last few pages, am now glad I actually read from the beginning - otherwise, I'd have found myself abruptly in the midst of unexpectedly confusing closing submissions & inexplicably exploding bees!

Otoh, that's pretty representative of the FWR experience - knowledge, humility & wonderfully witty randomness.

Fingers crossed for the outcome.

🐝

There is yet hope, then.

😁

Is this a thing that could happen - any legal women here? It makes sense, if so.

We've seen how these OU academics make everything about them and feel entitled to make demands that would disadvantage others. I hope the Judge now sees that far from being a neutral thing to do, asking Jo P her pronouns was not a neutral act and made it look as if the weight was already heavily on one side of the scales.

If they try to get back in, the females chew their wings off and kick them out again

Serves them right- effing pollenwankers!

If they try to get back in, the females chew their wings off and kick them out again

God, thought you were talking about Justin and the waiting room for a moment there.