Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 6

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

J: clarification re purpose of statement is to balance different concerns. You mean the concerns you have already mentioned.

JD: yes

there we have it - the statement included a phrase that "...the needs of our trans/nb staff are paramount..." that was aimed at the distressed T member of staff.

Paramount means above all others doesn't it? So, all his talk about "balancing" rights is complete baloney.

He only sees academic freedom as a concern which needs to be balanced, from what I can see. Not the effects on gender critical staff members or the GCRN network members.

JD evidence is finished. Next up is

LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21

Essentially he's trying to make the case that this kind of prejudice and discrimination is the good kind so its all ok.

I know he's not an English language professor but he does understand the meaning of paramount? Or is it like the letter and he just didn't bother thinking before appeasing this one member of staff

I didn't do it
but if I'd done it
how could you tell me that I was wrong

Athena Swan have recently switched back to monitoring sex and refocused on women. But they’ve done it very quietly - all the reporting universities do to them though has to be sex based, even though a lot of their material still says gender and gender identity.

From earlier

JD - the evidence is that there is controversy and at least two sides, we didn't want to be in the middle

• *that's your job if you don't want to discriminate.

BC - you signed the open letter, you weren't concerned about being neutral

JD - I was concerned to support my trans member of staff

So not neutral!

I hope it doesn't just go in Jo's favour. I hope it absolutely bloody nails these people. And they are told in no uncertain terms, that what they've done is illegal, unfair, and sexist.

in Pride Week, trans and non binary are paramount. No
mention of gay people

I get the sense it's like a lot in academia - it completely depends on who is involved. As soon as you have a high priest of gender zealotry involved it's probably lost in terms of practical improvements for women.

Good to hear not all universities are captured.

Of course this is a form of bias - people juggling childcare often don't have time to volunteer or cannot practically volunteer for such committees.

I’d like to see some costs consequences. I know it isn’t usual in employment tribunals , but it ought to be

Paramount is a word that is often used often in legal drafting in the context of balancing rights and interests. It's meaning and significance will not be lost on the judge.

Adding that as though it's a credible event, is just laughable.

I mean, really?!

You cannot "balance different concerns" if one set is "paramount".

It's like "the child's welfare is paramount". The parents' feelings, wishes, convenience and preference do not count against the child's welfare. You don't even take the parents' needs into account except where they affect the child. That's what "paramount" means.

Oh that is interesting to hear - I've been avoiding getting drawn into our team (have done a submission before and it nearly broke me) but would be more open to helping if this was the case. Can you point me towards any info?

The hat is paramount 😀

Yes, it seems quite acceptable to drive Prof Jo Phoenix, a lesbian, into the ground.

Who would want to be LGB working in this toxic environment?

Exactly.

Torn between 10cc's Good Morning Judge lyrics and Chicago's Cell Block Tango (for the tune, He Had It Coming).

BC: fact is that people who objected to Garside's views on t prisoner succeeded in getting event cancelled

LM: it wasn't like that

BC: a perfectly reasonable view for JP to have formed

LM: may have been reasonable, wasn't what happened

[a strong beginning for LM]

LM: I agree it was hijacked because people didn't want to speak

😀😀

BC: all this led to cancellation of conference

LM: yeah, I'll go along with that

BC: and JP can see that as serious breach of ac freedom

lM: if people start cancelling conferences cos of activism that is a breach of ac freedom but not what happened here

LM: JP may have seen it as that but that's not what happened [little laugh]

It's like "the child's welfare is paramount". The parents' feelings, wishes, convenience and preference do not count against the child's welfare. You don't even take the parents' needs into account except where they affect the child. That's what "paramount" means.

Yes, and there is no hierarchy in the EA. You cannot legally elevate the concerns of trans people above all else to treat other groups in a discriminatory way. You have a duty to all protected characteristics, including women on the grounds of sex, LGB people on the grounds of sexual orientation, other cultures on the grounds of race and including respecting people's protected religious or philosophical beliefs.