Labour want jail time for pronoun refuseniks - DM

[mb2512cat]

In normal times I’d think this couldn’t possibly be true but these days I wouldn’t put anything past Labour once they’re in power.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12631243/Deliberately-calling-wrong-gender-pronouns-land-jail-TWO-YEARS-Labour.html

I expect the whole of Mumsnet should be on standby to be reported:

'Internet Enquiries

Police officers and staff may receive complaints regarding the content of websites, chat rooms, newsgroup, and unsolicited emails and text messages sent on mobile phone and other devices.'
..
International Jurisdiction

Internet hate crime offenders are not limited by national or international boundaries. Even though communications may be of short duration, many computers are located in easily identifiable places. Computers can be accessed remotely, regardless of the location of the person who is posting, sending, viewing or receiving information online. Wherever the computer or the individual is located, there will be an electronic audit trail that will have a significant evidential value.'

Sorry. I didn't mean to derail the thread.

I'm just pointing to the fact that these laws are far closer than many people realise to already being in place.

Not derailing at all. You are right

Scotland is really scary and I agree @ArabellaScott that this is what it looks like when you have full manipulation of a system. And it is made worse by devolution as currently structured.

As discussed below, England and Wales does not actually define "hate crime" legally. That is important because it means that it is actually a fair bit harder to just legislate and declare something "hate" without more. There is basically no evidential test needed. That is not how criminal offences should work except in banal cases like speeding.

A good test for Labour in Scotland is to get rid of this legislation if they win. Because it is deeply flawed. I believe they know it is too, because Scottish lawyers are not dimwits

I expect the whole of Mumsnet should be on standby to be reported:

GC women should view laws like this in terms of what they type and what will attract the decision of a crime

Labour MSPs voted for it.

'when you're feeling insecure, when you feel angry, he'll be there feeding off
they emotions, getting bigger and bigger till he's weighing you down.

He'll make you want to have a go at somebody - a neighbor, somebody on the street on a night out, security guy on the door, somebody in the chippie, your taxi driver.

He'll make you want to vent your anger just cause folk look or act different from you. The hate monster wants you to feel like you need to show you're better than them, then, before you know it, you've committed a hate crime'

They did indeed.

Here’s one another country prepared earlier

‘Norwegian female lesbian filmmaker and actress, Tonje Gjevjon, is reportedly facing three years in prison on criminal hate-speech charges for saying that a man cannot become a lesbian.’

It may not proceed, but how many on here want to be able to type a man cannot be a woman without fear of police involvement

Kate Scottow and 'annoying' tweets:

https://publicdefenderservice.org.uk/news/is-posting-annoying-tweets-a-criminal-offence-the-impact-of-r-v-scottow/

Sarah Philimore:

'In June 2020, an anonymous Twitter account boasted (see below) that Sarah now had a “record for life” as the result of allegedly hateful tweets. Sarah contacted her local force, Wiltshire Police, who confirmed that twelve pages of tweets had been recorded as transphobic and religiously aggravated “non-crime hate incidents”.'

https://www.faircop.org.uk/case-studies/sarah-phillimore/

Posie Parker/Kelly Jay Keen interviewed for 'transphobic' tweets:

https://www.faircop.org.uk/case-studies/kellie-jay-keen-minshull/

Marion Millar was taken to court for some tweets and photograph of a ribbon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-59076966

I mean there have been several of these cases. They haven't as far as I'm aware resulted in a conviction.

That may change if Labour decide to beef up the legislation, as they claim they are planning to do, and presumably in a manner similar to Scotland's Hate Crime Bill, which was indeed supported by Labour MSPs.

Nononononono @ArabellaScott stop posting evidence of how The Right Side of History actively creates and uses legislation and police force to silence Wrongthink. Several Very Clever People have scolded this thread because "It'll never happen" and they must be Right because Reasons.

I'm just seeing that in fact, you don't even need to report directly to Police Scotland. You can use a third party reporting centre.

https://www.scotland.police.uk/contact-us/reporting-hate-crime/third-party-reporting-centres/

I can't as yet find legislation or guidance on Third Party Hate Crime Reporting Centres.

These are mostly community groups, council departments, a church, a cafe ...

How are these people going to deal with criminal accusations? With GDPR? With potentially malicious or libellous complaints?

This is one:

https://www.scorescotland.org.uk/3rd-party-reporting/

'Reporting a hate crime couldn’t be easier.'

😶

Oh, you can check to see if you have a record here.

Arf! 😁

The voting record of Scottish Labour is certainly another thing that Starmer and co should be taxed about.

Oh fatherland fatherland, show us the signs......

They're here. Right here.

It’ll never happen.

Oh..

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me to find that political parties - most likely the Tories - have accounts on here to whip up a frenzy against their opponents.

The people who continually moan and say that while the last 13 years have been bad, things would have been worse under Labour... either these people are working for the Tories, or they are fantastically deluded.

I say this as being someone who doesn't support Labour!

Nah maybe women care about the issues of hate crimes, free speech, single sex spaces and biological reality

Fluffy irrelevant stuff, granted. Irritating for Labour those pesky women keep speaking I get you.

But tough

On the last point, it's important to recognize that Labour are likely to be the next government.

The handwringing doesn't help.

Scotland is a nightmare - Labour should be asked what they are going to do about HCB, do they still support it, what about this "policy as law" guidance on reporting?

Ask every party in Scotland for that matter. Then you can vote or not vote for whoever.

@ArabellaScott i must say thought I’m not sure about this will actually work in practice. I remember when Kate Forbes was running to be SNP leader and first minister and people said things about her religion. Lots of liberal left people seemed to have a problem with a devout bible believing Christian become first minister. What would happen if they were all reported as being perceived to be hostile towards Kate because of her religion? Would the police interview them or not? This stuff looks very vague to me.

A political party that chose to ignore a website that attracts one of the largest voting demographics in the UK would be a bit daft, tbh.

So yes, I would expect there to be accounts here who are attempting to influence voters. From various parties/factions. And with varying degrees of honesty.

We're all anonymous internet users, at the end of the day.

Which is why I would suggest its most productive to engage with the arguments using credible evidence from several verifiable resources wherever possible, and best to largely ignore sneers, smears, or posts that try to shame women for thinking/voting/asking questions.

Aye, wait til you hear what the Police think of it!

The Bill was held up because the Police said it was unworkable and going to overwhelm them.

Yet here we are.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/hate-crime-bill-enforcement-in-scotland-delayed-until-at-least-2024-as-police-concerns-scupper-enforcement-3977709