Trans discussions in New Zealnd

[NZadultwoman]

Hi mums,
I am and immigrant to NZ from Africa. Lived here for 14 years. Always been pretty impressed with NZ until the last few years.
I am truly amazed at the lack of public discourse surrounding the trans ideology in this land. The level of public silenecing is astounding. I live in Wellington which is arguably the most radical left of the whole country. Major issues like allowing trans woman into female prisons were NEVER discussed publicly. The vast majority of people have no idea it's in law. Generally, people are terrified to speak up least they be washed with the evil "bigot" or worse, "unkind" brush. The youth (and especially the youth in academia and the arts) are the the most affected. This all became painfully obvious when I recently qhen back home to see family. The lively debate amonts and with young kids was so refreshing. So, I've immigrated to give my children better opportunities, but I have to question whether sacrificing their opptuinities to have open intellectual discourse is sensible. And New Zealanders feel the same?

We aren't all mums.

NZ is one of the best countries in the world for LGBT rights. They certainly stand up whenever a bigot wants to enter the country to spread hate.

They certainly stand up to abuse and bully women.

NZ might be great for T rights, but it isn’t for LGB or women’s rights. OP, you need to gently gently find people who feel the same way.

I think that women have it really rough in NZ at the moment @NZadultwoman from what I have read and seeing what happened to Kellie Kay Keen there.

I have never been there myself but hopefully some who have will be along to join the discussion here.

I find it interesting that people don’t seem to know what bigot means anymore. An obstinate and intolerant believer in a religion or political theory. Those of us who want to open up debate are not the bigots. The ones who hurl insults and threats at anyone who doesn’t believe as they do are actually the bigoted parties.

NZ is fabulous for those wanting to assault 71 year old women certainly. Really lets you get the blood up. (Not a great look guys)
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/posie-parker-protest-activist-pleads-guilty-to-punching-elderly-woman-at-heated-auckland-trans-rights-protest/A5RG2HY2TJFLFKAP4OT7JLGIGU/

A truly fabulous place for men who want to shut up Maori women. So cool guys. Such intersectional.

https://plainsight.nz/six-weeks-since-kellie-jay-keen-reflections-from-mana-wahine-korero/

I hear you NZadultwoman. Such a rapid change in the attitudes and values here in recent years. The NZ media is horrendous. It does make you question living here.

Are the Maori women against LGBT rights? Funny, because I didn't see any of them turn up to support Kelly Keen.

Stephannee, did you read the link provided by ditini?

NZ told Kelly where to go. A good country for the LGBT community to look up to IMHO

Actually Kellie-Jay’s visit has started opening the eyes of many NZrs not that you would know Stephannee as you appear to be a troll with nothing constructive to add the conversation.

Can I remind people :

don’t feed the troll

grey rock is the way to deal with disruption

Let’s focus on the OPs question.

I went to New Zealand 30 years ago and loved it. I have zero interest in ever going again. It is a backwards woman hating country.

And by the way @Stephannee I am a big women’s rights lesbian supporter

I know I know WorkingItOut. Don’t feed the troll, but I have had rather a lot of coffee this morning.
Anyway, in order to be a bit more constructive myself there is this coming up which may interest the Op.

I'm in NZ and I think we're some years behind the rest of the world with this. A lot of things just haven't happened here yet - I have never seen a TW in a public toilet or changing room, don't know anyone with a trans child. When I have broached the subject with select friends and family, they are all on the same page as me but they just don't think it's a big deal. I haven't spoken to one person who believes TWAW. They generally think it's a bit odd, but if they aren't bothering anyone then that's fine. Laurel Hubbard caused many comments, most people thinking it was ridiculous but blaming the Olympic rules rather than NZ. My older teenage kids are GC, the one at uni actually chose not to go to Wellington because of its reputation. We live in a rural area, maybe that makes a difference.
I had never heard of Kelly Jay Keen until the media blew up about her upcoming visit and I would guess most people were the same. The media told us a right wing nazi transphobe was coming to NZ. I had to do some research to find out what she was really about - I'm sure most people didn't.

OP, are you aware of the NZ group Speak Up For Women? They have a Facebook page.

Discussion is happening and has been for years, but the media and pretty much all institutions are totally captured, especially the universities. It’s a pretty sad state of affairs, but hopefully you can find some likeminded women to connect with. We are out there. :)

Yes, I ifollow their page. I'm just discouraged by their small following and the way they continuously get silenced by the media. There certainly isn't a formal platform like there is in the UK and in other places. Glad to hear of another kiwi voice. It's deathly silent!

Wow your experience is completely different to mine. I see about 1 trans teens a week (a guess, but regular enough for it to make a impression) I have met numerous trans adults. I have met a two women who volunteer for "women's group" and when questioned, they said they supported the inclusion of TW. My adult children basically refuse to discuss the topic as it is "violence in words" 🙄 but I haven't seen TW in bathrooms yet. I have seen an A4 poster in a public bathroom advising woman to contact a number if they feel uncomfortable. Like that would be useful after she's been attacked... I know of teachers teaching the gender stuff in intermediate and high schools. And mutterings of it being broached in kindergarten. A friend pulled her kid out of school to home school her. Good call that your kiddo chose a different city. The sexual dating meat market is also a nightmare. Apparently Wellington is known for its caddish sex culture

Interesting! I'll look into it

The lively debate amonts and with young kids was so refreshing. So, I've immigrated to give my children better opportunities, but I have to question whether sacrificing their opptuinities to have open intellectual discourse is sensible.

These are very interesting points OP.

I have family in New Zealand and unfortunately they have been affected by domestic violence. The way institutions dealt with it was jaw-dropping in several aspects. I have also seen some misogynistic attitudes that are in no way unique to NZ - but the open way they were expressed was not something I've ever seen.

I live in a different country to where I was raised and I think it's unavoidable to regularly question if it was the best choice for your kids. It's lucky that you have found lively debate in your country of origin - I found the opposite, where I grew up there really is no debate and my relatives over there think I am basically Donald Trump if I quietly question TW in women's sports etc. I find it a bit depressing that all the possibilities of the Internet and social media are resulting in a certain cultural and moral uniformity.

But I can see from your updates that in a way you are quietly being the change you want to see - supporting women's groups and having calm, nuanced discussions.

LGB without the TQ+ is becoming much louder.
When many LGB are questioning the motives of the TQ+ the tide is turning.

I sense the same in the big picture. But not in NZ. there is little movement here

Enjoyed the joke about Donald Trump. Hee hee. No ons dared to compare to the orange trumpet but what you said made me think how weird it was that I was always considered way out liberal my entire life till 5 years ago. And now, I'm generally seen as backward. At first I was frustrated by it, then I found myself being pretty damn judgemental and now I'm confident I can jonlknger be described a liberal, not since the left kicked me out heehee.

Tell me how they support the L&G when they’ve redefined homosexuality without consultation?