Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2

[ickky]

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

CW - Chris Williams, Senior Lecturer History
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SE - Sarah Earle, Prof of Medical Sociology, Director HWSRA 2016-22
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

"When did you first become aware of reality?"

😂😂😂

💀

Maybe all us GC's are just thick as I also cannot get my head round identify.

What does it feel like to be a woman/man etc.

How can anyone possibly know that, you only know how you feel in yourself, which could not be sexed, I cannot think of when I feel more womanly etc.

Did JP feel she had a legal right to hold those beliefs 😱

J - did you think at that time you might have a legal right to those beliefs and therefore been discriminated against. JP- no. Not a lawyer, a sociologist.

Surely anybody has the legal right to hold any beliefs - you can't legislate against thinking!

Obviously some beliefs cannot be manifested legally, but you can't police thought surely?

Yes I can't say I check the legalities of my thoughts!

Oh, FFS - so we now need a legal right to believe the earth is round, that gravity exists and that biological sex is real? Society, science and reality really is lost.

TBF to the judge, I think what she is trying to get at is at what point did JP realise she might have legal redress.

Yes, the judge is now asking when did she receive legal advice.

Surely that should be obvious to the Judge. It was the EAT for Maya.

Judge now finished

BC to re examine.

Hoped OU would do something to help, to protect her, partic. through friendship with Ian Fribbonce. Over to the notorious BC now.

Ben Cooper is in the room!

Well the judge has to establish what JP was thinking, not what was 'obvious'. I'm not a fan of the judge, far from it, but I don't see a problem with these questions.

BC: Indicated regarded as hostile to GC beliefs. Examples?

Jo: Stated women's rights are anti-trans, ref to Breitbart & far-right, pretty much all of first page.

Comment of the day

This is glorious. BC taking Jo to every omission in JM's examination and giving her room to talk.

BC taking JP to all emails with Dr Downes in which JP offered to mentor DrD (JM was very selective) to show that JP was not 'brusque' as alleged.

I wasn’t asked any questions at any stage by the clerk and have had no end of issues being admitted online today, although it was fine earlier in the week. Wonder if the clerk has changed?

Seems Dr Downes likes to cancel people.

I'm just checking in here to keep you in my there's I'm on

BC wants to check use of 'contemporary language '.