Could feminism and non binary be the same thing?

[cupofdecaf]

I'd consider myself a feminist moderate GC.

I've recently met a non binary person. It got me thinking. Could I just simply reject all gender stereotypes and be non binary?

I believe that gender is a social construct. Sex is a biological fact.

I'm a woman and mother. I doubt anyone looks at me and thinks I could be or identify as a man. I do wear men's clothes a fair bit (husbands cloths mostly because they're very comfortable).

I like the idea of rejecting the social expectations of gender. My question is would that make me non binary and if not what label would be appropriate.

NB I don't feel like I need a label but we're in a culture of labels. Also I doubt it would change a single thing but I'm curious.

If by non-binary you mean not interested in tedious old gender stereotypes, then yes the majority of feminists could be described as such. Especially with regard to clothes, make-up, hobbies etc.

If non-binary means pretending to be neither male nor female then that is laughable unscientific bollocks.

Quite happy being an adult human female thanks.

Feminism: gender stereotypes are bad for all of us, solidarity with other women.

Non-binary: gender stereotypes are not for me, I'm not like the other girls.

They're both approaches to the same problem, and have a lot of similarities.

But there's one big difference.

Feminism sees the way women are treated - by men individually, by society as a whole - decides it's wrong, and attempts to change it. On behalf of all women. It's hard, but worth doing.

Non-binary (as an identity) see all those problems and instead of fighting it attempts to opt out. Individually. It's easy; but like many easy routes it's also selfish, cowardly, and ultimately tends to be unsuccessful.

Also a distressing number of NB females seem to think this requires having their breasts amputated and taking testosterone. The NB blokes may just wear lippy and frocks, but most don't seem to bother.

Everyone is non binary in my opinion. I doubt there is a person alive who conforms wholly to just one gender stereotype.

Just opt out of oppression, why not.

Sadly the world doesn't tend to join in. Men are still advantaged, women disadvantaged, regardless of how much they protest they aren't the same as all the others.

I don't think you can be non binary if you believe gender is a social construct. I only know one non binary person (biologically F) is full on TWAW and classes themselves as being under the trans umbrella. They believe that gender is something that you feel inside and that if you don't feel inside that you are a particular gender then you are non binary. This goes against believing in biological sex as 'gender feels' overrides this.

Apparently (or so I've been told on twitter), the label that fits you is agender. Someone who is agender has no gender.

I was told that my belief that gender is a load is sexist nonsense means I'm agender and therefore trans. I think it was meant to be a gotcha...

🤣

The 2 non binary people I know think they are neither male nor female. Though both are biological females they identify as part of the trans/queer spectrum and all that goes with it, including the erasure of actual women.

Non-binary is explicitly identifying as a gender-related identity, whereas those of us who just crack on with our lives without worrying about our gender anything are just us, female or male. I don't need to identify as 'non-religious' in order to live my life without following a religion.

Yep, going by the NB people I know, if I described myself as such it would be taken by many to mean I'd like to pass as a man.

This.

There is an arrogance to this position - when all around you are catholic it's highly unlikely you would reject religion - many NB are trying to see how they fit into a very gendered world and expecting especially young people to understand the way they buy into the male default - well it's taken me 50 years to get to my current understanding of sex and gender

Agender seems to be the best fit. Not really sure if 'I don't care about gender stereotypes really I just want to crack on being me' should have a label or not.
Actually annoys me all the assumptions that are made about me by other people.
I think I present as a woman/ conform broadly to female stereotypes frankly because I've been conditioned by society. Why did I ever wear heels they are awful to wear? They make doing stuff harder as if society was actively trying to put blocks in the way of me achieving like a man.

This

The issue is the gender identity bit that drives nonbinary. They are identifying out of something not rejecting stereotypes. They are effectively forcing everyone else into the binary via stereotypes.

Trying to equate NB with feminist rejection of stereotypes is a false equivalence.

I can see how endorsing non binary is actually forcing others into gender stereotypes.
I'm not like a girl/ woman is categorising others.
I really don't care what others wear or look like (assuming it's decent and age appropriate).

The effect of people identifying as 'nonbinary' is unhelpful to feminism and to countering structural sexism.
For instance, see the thread on a women's tech event being gatecrashed by blokes under the guise that they were 'nonbinary'.

Off on a tangent somewhat but lumping sexuality with gender seems odd to me - LGBTQ+
Do some people see non binary as a sexuality? To me it's not but I'm on learning curve.

NB’s rely on stereotypes continuing to exist. If they didn’t there would be nothing to opt out of.

I'm not arrogant about rejecting gender, I just want to be left alone without being labelled into infinitely more restricted gender boxes - and non-binaries are part of the movement who are doing this!

The very concept of 'non-binary' relies on there being a binary to be 'non' from. I'm neither a gender binary or a non-binary, gender is just not a concept I want anything to do with.

You can reject stupid and damaging gender stereotypes without pretending you do not have a sex, and demanding everyone goes along with you.

You see I would class my son as being non binary he knows he is a boy he knows boys have a penis and girls don't he also likes "girl things and girl colours" to him they are just "things and colours" I never saw it as a sex thing just a description of facts he does not conform to rigid gender stereotypes

Good grief this shit is tricky

The concept of non-binary is completely at odds with feminism, although it looks feminist at first glance.
For someone to be non-binary, binary genders must exist. For non-binary to be real, gender stereotypes have to be real and natural for most people (aka cis) with the exception of the special few (non-binary)
All it does is re-inforce stereotypes. It's a deeply sexist concept.

Isn't that just horribly sexist? What are girl things? Girl colours?