Anyone else GC and left wing in their politics?

[mids2019]

I am finding the conservative party conference difficult in some sense as I agree with some of their GC policies and attitudes yet would describe my self as a working class died in the will leftie. I really don't like this assumption that being for women's rights automatically means people associate you with right wing politics in general. For me it's simply not the case.

Why is it that poor now associate left with trans rights????

It's just not your particular doctrine of left wing boots.

And the fact is, no matter how some people try and ignore it, what is commonly understood as "left-wing" can be quite different, indeed the opposite, to what it used to mean.

To give just two examples.immigration,and Euro-skepticism. What were once common ideas on the left, derived from leftist though, will now get you called a racist and a moron in any left-wing group.

Quite a few of the posters on FWR are aware of this history, and manage to realize that the main point is not avoid being called right wing, but to think about the policies in a robust way.

It's a really important question when the Tories = Government. The people with the power at the minute.

Actually, this is the only feminist space I've known where people are scolded for criticising a current government's record on women's rights.

No one has said we're all right wing. I'm here, I'm not right wing. However @Duffdee said we're all left wing. That is untrue.

Actually, this is the only feminist space I've known where people are scolded for criticising a current government's record on women's rights

You think you are being scolded? You are up and down the boards like the grey lady demanding that posters justify their concerns about the Labour party.

I'm politically further left than the current Labour party.

I criticise them because I want them to do better.

And because what they are doing to women's and children's rights iis extremely dangerous as well as unjustified by any socialist standards.

Me too 👋

My remark you quoted was in response to this post of yours

TooBigForMyBoots · Today 17:07

The title of this thread is Is anyone else GC and left wing in their politics? Why would that question need to be asked if FWR was left wing.

Apologies for the quote fail. Does this put my remark in context? On this board we're constantly being accused of being right wing or even far right, obviously not you 🙄though, just the rest of us.

I mean I’m a naturally inclined conservative voter, but I don’t have any delusions about the Tory party being genuinely gender critical. They’re just striking while the iron is hot to divide the left and poach votes. It will probably work, and I expect as things stand for them to get another term. On the GC issue alone though, I don’t think I could vote for labour. The thought of what it would expose my daughters too is too much. My 8yo DD with ASD came home and told me a few months ago that maybe she was transgender. Her teacher, in a Catholic school no less, has been teaching them about transgender issues. It is appalling how far this has crept and how nefarious it is.

Convenient politics or not, the conservatives are at least aligned with my views on this matter, and I absolutely despise the way that women and girls are being sacrificed for this.

Because everyone is so fucking sick of idiots telling them they are right wing for being gender critical!

They are being gaslight and starting to question their own fucking minds and political beliefs.

THAT'S the point.

The abuse of you are either with us or against us politics. Which is being pushed by the left and then they squeal the right is guilty of pushing culture wars.

It's all bullshit.

YOU are part of the problem.

I have never demanded that because I don't give a shit about the Labour Party. I do post on threads, criticising the Tory government's record on women's rights and reminding people of the threat from TRAs in the sitting government.

You are dreaming, it's all you do. And I have, in other threads, answered your questions about how I have arrived at where I have. And there's just no recognition that for most feminists who have been boxed into this ridiculous position that this isn't easy and it's not comfortable to be looking at the Tories as the least worst option, and then written off as right wing to boot. I'm done with it.

I’m left-wing. I would like to see a fairer and more equal society. From the data I’ve seen, which compares different countries, high income inequality tends to correlate with high murder rates and a lower life expectancy.

Also, as flawed as democracy is, I think it’s better than allowing “the market” to rule, because in practice, that means large corporations having far too much power and behaving very unethically. This is one of several reasons I voted Remain in the EU referendum.

I’m still technically a member of the Green Party and I agree with most of their aims. But I despair of them. A party that refers to women as “non-men” is not credible. And I can’t believe it’s focusing mainly on identity politics as the planet is burning.

The abuse of you are either with us or against us politics has been front and centre here with "at least the Tories know what a woman is". A nonsensical lie, parroted and defended many times here, often accompanied by insults and made up bullshit by those who want us to vote Tory.

There is also an abuse of the term "right wing" in many places. Right wing suggests very radical dictatorships etc. It never used to mean us traditonal Tory voters, middle of the road, not socialist but supporting our current democracy. It is very unfair that normal Tory voters (about half the UK) are called "right wing" and extremist when they are not.

BUT THEY STARTED IT.

FFS. Grow up.

This is what I HATE most about politics.

@Xenia the Tory party is the biggest RW party in the UK, just as Labour is the biggest LW party in the UK. RW is no more an insult than LW.

I find this comment very enlightening.

Since when were people limited in their reading materials to be able to call themselves Left wing? Surely a person who is politically engaged will read very widely, even those media that they don't agree with but who might have a different take on an issue? That is certainly how I approach it. I read stuff that I fully disagree with but it is worthwhile because it means that I am challenged. I analyse it and decide if I should consider it further.

Your comment also neglects to indicate that you understand the lack of discussion with the politically left media. If no one is writing about it, then how would we read these none existent articles?

Plus you mention the Daily Mail. Do you really believe that Julie Bindel is right wing? So if we read an article in the DM by Julie, we are right wing? It is hard to imagine that kind of prejudice and how you deal with it in everyday life.

And that doesn't even cover the fact that the DM is not paywalled. It means that people can read it for free and freely.

If you don't believe that the intelligence level of posters on this board can cope with reading the Daily Mail and such and then apply their critical thinking abilities to work out what is click bait and what is factual reporting (even within the same article), again, that really is your own prejudice.

I have no doubt the intelligence level of people on this board can cope with reading the Daily Mail and such.... I'm here and I read some of their articles.

And I haven't passed comment on the intelligence levels of anyone. Just as I haven't called anyone a bigot. Or supported the Labour Party or most of the other shit I'm accused of.

Exactly.

Its authoritarian left wing gatekeeping nonsense.

"Thou shalt not read the Daily Mail as it is full of sin and thoughts that will corrupt your mind."

Its controlling paternalism.

The general public must not be exposed to 'wrongthink' because they won't be able to cope with it and will be brainwashed into having the wrong views.

How about having a proper political debate which doesn't indulge in this shutting down of 'difficult' subjects.

What? It needs to be asked because assuming anyone's political views based on whether they have posted on a subforum makes no logical sense.

Did you really not understand that?

People have assumed the political views of FWR posters. Therefore, to establish actual data on this, this thread was started.

I can't believe that actually needed explaining, but clearly it did.

Would you care to tell us what the significance was of mentioning the media that is discussed and shared here then please?

Why make a point of it?

I hate the Mail in general, but I read articles of interest. I’ve read the Guardian since my teens and am sad and frustrated at what it’s become. The Times and Telegraph are far too right-wing for my tastes but I still read articles of interest when people kindly provide share tokens or archive links. GB News is generally awful but some debates (Andrew Doyle anyway) are well worth watching, if you don’t mind cringing every time “woke” is mentioned (a lot, sadly, it diminishes any argument). I don’t like Jordan Peterson or Matt Walsh, but have enjoyed their work and interviews on trans issues.

My mind has been broadened by gender critical debate, when I was in an echo chamber previously on issues such as Brexit.

EDITED to say that at least my READING has been broadened, if not my mind.

Yep, me too. Lefty to the core and GC because I'm capable of basic logic and critical thinking.

I find it particular galling how the left's collective brain fart on gender has now become a stick with which to beat "Identity Politics" more generally, as I agree with pretty much everything else that has happened under that umbrella. Gay rights, equal marriage, racial equality, raising awareness of prejudice in schools etc. It's all good. The world is a better place than it was when I grew up in so many ways, and I have nothing but admiration for the brave individuals from various minorities that have fought to make it that way.

But now apparently I have to choose between bigots who want an excuse to roll all that back, and idiots who can't work out the difference between a chromosome and a figment of the imagination.

Sigh At least there's Mumsnet.

I have to say I find the 'FWR / GCs are Right Wing' followed by comments about the media utterly fascinating and revealing in terms of paternalism and authoritarianism.

Its all about ownership of women innit?