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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Would you vote Tory if Kemi Badenoch was Tory the party leader and the election was tomorrow?

768 replies

lechiffre55 · 03/10/2023 13:39

Just curious to see what the answers here might be.
Would you vote Tory if Kemi Badenoch was the Tory party leader and the election was tomorrow?
Feel free to answer any way you like, and I don't care about derailing. The question is quite tongue in cheek, don't take it too seriously, and have fun with it if you want, rant if you want. I'm trying to get a picture of the MN mood.

OP posts:
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15
EasternStandard · 07/11/2023 09:07

Hurrydash · 07/11/2023 08:49

Well I do have trust in the great British public (or at least English public given the Scots voted for the SNP) they will NOT vote for a destruction of women's rights.

When the media/press spotlight is turned full blast on current labour policies in this area one of two things will happen either they'll change them or they'll lose.

Don't mind which.

Any alternative is unthinkable.

The media can be lethal it is true

I don’t mind either if it gets rid of this gender stuff

SaffronSpice · 07/11/2023 09:21

’single issue’

Educatiom - queer theory and pornography in school, undermining biology syllabus, girls not drinking all day to avoid mixed sex toilets, activist teachers. Universities censoring speech. Teachers and academics being targeted if not upholding activists demands. Potential lawyers being failed for mentioning sex and indoctrinated in queer theory. Student doctors being taught sex doesn’t matter. Children being told they can pick their sex. Safeguarding undermined.

Justice - people being forced to lie in court and say men are women. Crime statistics being falsified to suggest women are increasingly perpetrators of crime (and therefore no longer entitled to protections from men), police being trained in misogyny and allowing violent men to threaten women whilst arresting women who speak. Violent rapists being put in women’s prisons. Hate Crime laws preventing freedom of speech and allowing activists to get people charged with hate crimes for expressing disagreement over the dinner table, with the presumption of innocence removed. Judges and police being trained up by activists. The CPS adopting lobbyist guidance saying it is domestic abuse for a wife not to pay for her husbands transition. The equal treatment bench book being written by activists to remove women’s rights and introduce genderist language. Rape crisis services prioritising the feelings of male staff over the needs of rape victims,

Health - the language of females removed from public health literature, women referred to by body parts, women expected to share wards with men, health data being corrupted by referring to gender not sex so sex specific conditions or responses to medications are hidden and the default becomes male. Women objecting or not wanting a male carer excluded from health care. Children subject to unevidenced and harmful medical abuse. Criminalisation of treatments such as talking therapy. Pushing the exploitation of women and the commodification of humans through surrogacy under the guise of ‘reproductive equality’.

Sport - women’s sport destroyed, women and girls excluded due to not having safe, private spaces to change. Women who do play placed at high risk of injury as having to play against men.

public life - the reintroduction of the urinary leash for women and girls. Silencing freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Discrimination against women. Destruction of statistics that show women’s ability to participate in public life or pay making it impossible to evidence sex discrimination. All male public boards being counted as ‘gender equality’ removing both female representation and the ability to object to the lack of female representation. Libraries and bookshops censoring books that question gender ideology. Female political representatives who question gender abused and their abuse ignored by party leadership.

I could go on. There is a worldwide campaign, not just UK. The Tories are belatedly pulling back (not nearly enough) but Labour are in the thrall of it and their behaviour in power (Wales), the votes of their politicians, and their public statements show they are pushing genderideology and queer theory now and will push it more in government. Yes the Tories have allowed too much but it is clear if labour had been in power this all would have been much worse. Remember it was Labour who introduced the GRA with nary a consideration of women.

HagoftheNorth · 07/11/2023 09:28

Saffron I agree - this is certainly not experienced as a single issue. Of course I want a government that invests in our health service, our education, law and order etc, but if women can’t use it, then all that is worthless - and the economic impacts will be huge. Sadly, a bit like climate change, the people who think this isn’t that important are the people who haven’t really thought it through

MadeleineMummy · 07/11/2023 09:29

Hurrydash · 07/11/2023 08:49

Well I do have trust in the great British public (or at least English public given the Scots voted for the SNP) they will NOT vote for a destruction of women's rights.

When the media/press spotlight is turned full blast on current labour policies in this area one of two things will happen either they'll change them or they'll lose.

Don't mind which.

Any alternative is unthinkable.

I think there are loads of Tory HQ plants reaching an audience on the various facets of social media as they have nothing to offer apart from their phoney culture war . No one looking at the chaos of the last few years and the rogues gallery of rapists, incompetents, sociopaths, racists and fraudsters on the make could ever want to vote them in again. Especially on a single issue like “women with penises” which Labour have stated that they will consult on with interested parties to reform the GRA.

No sane person who looks at the current state of the country in permacrisis could ever want a Tory, even if you were rich you would not be unaffected by the drop in the standards of services, the roads, waterways, the NHS, the economy, the excess deaths caused by austerity, the child hunger and poverty, and the utter hopelessness and destitution that are so prevalent everywhere. The party that presided over 230k deaths and did nothing as people “should accept their fate” while they played “let’s have fun with the cap doffing plebs”. I have never seen such despair in people. When the NHS collapses and is sold off, there is no going back. When lives are lost to the ideology of being poor as a lifestyle choice, there is no going back. When the gap between rich and poor reaches such an extent that people who have nothing left turn to civil disorder, there is no turning back. When our forests, environment, habitats and wildlife are destroyed for the sake of profit, there is no going back.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/performance-tracker-2023

As for the debt, under Labour, debt rose slightly to ameliorate a massive financial meltdown which presaged a financial crisis triggered by the inactivity of regulators and government in the US. Brown did not get credit for decisive and rapid action. Whereas debt has risen with each successive Tory governments with a consequent decline is all measures of prosperity, service and wellbeing of the nation.

But at least the Conservatives know that women don’t have penises. Right Princess Nutnut?

Would you vote Tory if Kemi Badenoch was Tory the party leader and the election was tomorrow?
SaffronSpice · 07/11/2023 09:42

rogues gallery of rapists, incompetents, sociopaths, racists and fraudsters

The same could be said of the opposition benches. But certainly there are MPs in all parties I would not wish to see return to power.

But at least the Conservatives know that women don’t have penises. Right Princess Nutnut?

#NoDebate eh?

PorcelinaV · 07/11/2023 16:26

I believe they want to change it so you only need 1 doctor to sign off on it, so depending on the details that could be ridiculously easy and basically self ID.

EasternStandard · 07/11/2023 16:44

That Gender War is Over article that people keep linking…

Yeh it’s not. Maybe if you’re pro Labour and you’d like it to go away

Women will still speak up so that’s a no

SaffronSpice · 07/11/2023 16:47

They need to repeal the GRA. Not have some token box to tick and say ‘see, it is not self ID’.

EasternStandard · 07/11/2023 16:48

SaffronSpice · 07/11/2023 16:47

They need to repeal the GRA. Not have some token box to tick and say ‘see, it is not self ID’.

Labour will not repeal its own laws, but will defend them - and has stated that for EqA

Froodwithatowel · 07/11/2023 17:08

Labour will also, once in power, be heavily thugged by Stonewall to remove all single sex exceptions. Which Stonewall are quite up front about wanting out of the EqA (despite repeatedly saying they don't work and aren't relevant and don't stop men going into women's spaces.)

This is just Labour's starting point and their views on the irrelevancy of women's rights, child safeguarding and LGB rights before they even get into power. This is them in 'don't frighten the horses' mode. Once in power, that box will open and all the grotty deals made will be called in.

EasternStandard · 07/11/2023 17:23

Froodwithatowel · 07/11/2023 17:08

Labour will also, once in power, be heavily thugged by Stonewall to remove all single sex exceptions. Which Stonewall are quite up front about wanting out of the EqA (despite repeatedly saying they don't work and aren't relevant and don't stop men going into women's spaces.)

This is just Labour's starting point and their views on the irrelevancy of women's rights, child safeguarding and LGB rights before they even get into power. This is them in 'don't frighten the horses' mode. Once in power, that box will open and all the grotty deals made will be called in.

Of course they will

They've already said ‘take the public with you’ that’s where we’re at

ArabellaScott · 07/11/2023 17:28

I'm sure I've posted the bingo card previously, but I'll do it again just because it saves everyone time.

Would you vote Tory if Kemi Badenoch was Tory the party leader and the election was tomorrow?
ArabellaScott · 07/11/2023 17:45

Weefreetiffany · 06/11/2023 18:54

Christina you’re already losing rights under this government. Don’t be naive. Women have to retire later and the deterioration of the nhs and social services have meant more women are expected to step in and care for both children and parents, while working full time, as heaven forbid we’re not “economically active”. And the underfunding of the nhs has lead to terrible maternity services, women’s medical issues are underfunded and under supported and the police have an all time low trust level in regards to women. More men get away with violent crime against women and rape. Don’t be blinded by a very niche issue that is being addressed and will continue to be as you’re literally a frog in a pot of water who hasn’t noticed the temperature has reached boiling point.

also don’t doubt for a second that antisemitism, islamophobia and sexism are the bedrock of the tories however much they use black and brown people as their mouthpieces.

Women have to retire later because of the changing demographics and ageing population. How are Labour planning to fix this?

TooBigForMyBoots · 07/11/2023 23:35

Rudderneck · 07/11/2023 01:52

Get a life.

I have a life. I am a middle aged British woman living in Britain in 2023. I've lived through numerous Tory governments. None have done so much damage to women than this one.

They inflicted Austerity and other economic policies that disproportionately impacted women.
The inflicted Brexit.
They ceded Women's rights to Transfolk.
They put male sex offenders into women's prisons and onto women's wards, where they carried out more sex offences.
They paid loads of money to Stonewall because one of the bosses was a Tory donor.
They fucked up education and housing.
And the NHS.
Women's voices and concerns were given less prominence than predominantly male sports in their pandemic planning.
They refused to make misogyny Hate speech.
Their individual members are disgustingly misogynistic and damaging to the women in their personal/professional lives, on SM and in the country in general.
Practically decriminalised rape.

I have a life. I do not wish it to be governed by sex offenders, misogynists, "incompetents" and liars.

Do you think it's OK for a political party to cover for rapists, sex abusers and liars @Rudderneck ?

TooBigForMyBoots · 08/11/2023 00:06

Can you see what it is yet?

Kokeshi123 · 08/11/2023 03:33

ArabellaScott · 07/11/2023 17:28

I'm sure I've posted the bingo card previously, but I'll do it again just because it saves everyone time.

Who's the bingo card aimed at? At people on this thread?

Because the thing, the people disagreeing with you are all gender critical and none of us are supporting or agreeing with any of the gender-woo points listed on the bingo card about women having penises and all that.

We're all just making the point that this one particular issue is not enough to sway our vote.

Kokeshi123 · 08/11/2023 03:34

ArabellaScott · 07/11/2023 17:45

Women have to retire later because of the changing demographics and ageing population. How are Labour planning to fix this?

Demographic changes are difficult to do anything about, but I suspect Labour has more of a fighting chance of raising the birth rate simply because they are planning to build more housing.

RayonSunrise · 08/11/2023 07:11

I am still amazed that anyone is thinking that the rise of GI in Britain can be nearly pinned to one party. It's been a raging problem in all of the parties, and all of them have had true believers and dissidents.

One loud party member who's finally been allowed to speak her mind on this because it's been identified as an electoral wedge issue does not in any way indicate that a future Tory government would be good for women's rights. The past 10+ years have been a shitshow on that front, so claiming that things will be different this time (honest, gov!) is quite a stretch.

Because I don't trust this government on women's rights, I will have to make my voting decision on a fuller set of factors than just whether Kemi has been allowed to speak on this. Stick that in your bingo card.

ArabellaScott · 08/11/2023 08:17

Kokeshi123 · 08/11/2023 03:34

Demographic changes are difficult to do anything about, but I suspect Labour has more of a fighting chance of raising the birth rate simply because they are planning to build more housing.

More housing is crucial. But it's not going to fix the NHS, is it?

I'd like to hear the Labour-proposed solutions to some of the problems cited upthread. There's certainly plenty to be done. The last time I went to check their policies they were somewhat scant on information.

SaffronSpice · 08/11/2023 09:01

RayonSunrise · 08/11/2023 07:11

I am still amazed that anyone is thinking that the rise of GI in Britain can be nearly pinned to one party. It's been a raging problem in all of the parties, and all of them have had true believers and dissidents.

One loud party member who's finally been allowed to speak her mind on this because it's been identified as an electoral wedge issue does not in any way indicate that a future Tory government would be good for women's rights. The past 10+ years have been a shitshow on that front, so claiming that things will be different this time (honest, gov!) is quite a stretch.

Because I don't trust this government on women's rights, I will have to make my voting decision on a fuller set of factors than just whether Kemi has been allowed to speak on this. Stick that in your bingo card.

Gender Identity has been push worldwide and I agree the Conservatives have let too much happen in the UK, but if you look at the voting record on this issue you will see they are the only party pushing back now. Not just one MP; in Scotland Labour whipped their MSPs to vote for Self ID whereas nearly all the Conservative MSPs voted against it. The conservatives spotted the danger (or responded to voter concerns) on banning so called conversion therapies, whereas labour MSPs stand in front of Pride flags and say they will ban it (ie anything other than directing minor down the medical route for gender treatment) once they are in power.

PorcelinaV · 08/11/2023 09:50

EasternStandard · 07/11/2023 16:48

Labour will not repeal its own laws, but will defend them - and has stated that for EqA

Also Labour would need to pull out of the European Convention on Human Rights and not even the Tories have the balls for that. For Labour it would be unthinkable.

PorcelinaV · 08/11/2023 09:59

@Froodwithatowel

This is them in 'don't frighten the horses' mode.

I would suspect so. Maybe they will not go completely crazy when it comes to prisons and single sex exceptions. We will see.

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