Trans women to be banned from female hospital wards

[Imnobody4]

Yes¡ Just done a little victory dance. I hope it really is as good as it sounds.

https://twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1708956051683295391?t=daMUSC8mbF_9sSi9ynIsIg&s=19

On Tuesday, Steve Barclay will announce proposals to push back against “wokery” in the health service that has led to women’s rights being increasingly sidelined.The changes would give men and women the right to be cared for on wards only shared by people of their own biological sex, and to have intimate care provided by those of the same sex.Mr Barclay said the plan would mean the return of “a common-sense approach to sex and equality”, ensuring that women’s dignity was protected and their voices heard.The proposals follow concerns from patients and staff about biological men being allowed on to women’s hospital wards. In 2021, NHS guidance said trans patients could be placed on single-sex wards on the basis of the gender with which they identified.

@EasternStandard and they’ve had plenty of time before now to identify issues with the GRA if they had wanted to

If you deliberately have cosmetic surgery this doesn't make you female. You still retain certain physical features that women may find distressing.

It's not for women to budge up and accommodate men.

The solution MUST be to provide third spaces in these situations.

HOWEVER the biggest issue we see is the failure to adhere to targets to eliminate mixed sex wards in the first place. They still remain far too common. Particularly for mental health.

And that's the danger for me - female only wards will be eroded further because of this.

This must be accompanied by a commitment to end mixed sex wards too.

Bbc saying MAY be

What are you thinking?

Repeal the GRA or something else?

This has only surfaced in a major way recently, eg Isla Bryson.

Politicians change when people demand it, so keep telling them you do want change and don’t let Starmer fob you off with no one’s talking about it. If he won’t listen, no vote it’s the only thing that sticks

And this is where the wangling will start.

Oh but what about THIS male?
And THAT male?
And oh sad for THOSE males?

No. All their needs can be met without putting them on women's wards. There is no need or situation that should ever mean putting a male on women's wards. 'Karen' White has recently said (serving a life sentence for multiple serial sex offenses, in one case multiply raping a woman all night on the women's mental health ward he'd identified into) that no male without a penis should be in a women's space.

Does anyone really think White without a penis would be any less awful to be feeling very unwell next to, possibly immobile or semi conscious, half dressed, possibly using bed pans, a couple of feet away from with just a screen some of the time between you and him? Does anyone think removing his penis would have that much of an effect on his capacity to sexually offend and severely injure a woman? How many women are ok to see harmed while we try this out and hold another consultation, just to check that there really, really really IS the evidence to say no to male people that they cannot have access to non consenting females in a state of undress?

Sometimes I don't honestly believe I'm really living in these times.

Excellent sunlight.

How many people might be twigging what 'TWAW' actually involves, now?

LInk to the BBC article:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66994133

It's front and centre on the BBC landing page, too.

'Dr Vishal Sharma, of the British Medical Association, questioned how practical the move would be.
He said some hospitals would find it "very challenging" as single rooms were limited and often reserved for infection control purposes.'

So put them in the male ward. I don't care, just stop seeing women as terra incognita who have no views, feelings, rights or voice.

Edited for shit Latin

Exactly

No makes regardless if identity is the only solution. No " good guy" would object. Anyone thinking they are special and should be allowed well that alone is a sense of entitlement and an intention to ignore boundaries and consent that proves they actually shouldn't be there.

Besides JY has had the surgery. Anyone want JY and their period /tampon and suing anyone who won't touch their genitals fetish on a ward with their sick mums /grandmas /sisters and daughters ?

This will never happen!

I know a senior nurse who is MTF and no one knows about it. She transitioned thirty years ago. She’s tiny and you would never guess because she completely passes.

Should she come off all clinical work now, or tell every patient her background?

What about the legislation that makes it a crime to reveal someone’s past transitioning history?

As a nurse the first thought should be the patient ajd their rights and their well being. Not a staff members ability to continue to deceive all those around them intentionally. Its no ones job to enable others to lie to people. No matter how " nice" or how well they " pass".

Its still a lie.

I would expect if she is not a predator that she would avoid situations where patients have specified same sex care. Otherwise it's a bit rapey tbh.

Yep.

I hope your friend respects the wishes of any female patients who have requested single sex care, Upsizer. Otherwise she is breaching their consent.

What about the legislation that makes it a crime to reveal someone’s past transitioning history?

Herewith the solution:

The Secretary of State may by order make provision prescribing circumstances in which the disclosure of protected information is not to constitute an offence under this section.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/22

If a woman asks for single sex care then the hospital can either say "yes" (in which case your friend shouldn't be treating that patient) or they can say "sorry we are not able to offer you single sex care on this occasion, do you want to proceed with treatment anyway". In either scenario your friend's trans status wouldn't need to be divulged to the patient. What should never happen is that the hospital agrees that they can provide you with single sex care and then send a male person to carry out treatment.

@jlpth

Well said. One size fits all rhetoric can have unintended consequences.

My friend is f-m and I doubt any of you would think he was anything but natal male. Thankfully he's very well treated including his (male) sports team. Whilst I do acknowledge in reverse it's a bit more complicated but there are m-f trans who have been through surgery, and shouldn't be on a male ward or in a male prison for all the reasons we don't want mixed wards or prisons... we need to ensure everyone is treated fairly, third spaces being available as necessary

In real life I’ve rarely come across patients who would ask for same sex care other than in mental health wards (or some geriatric). But they usually ask once they’ve seen that a nurse is male.

So you all think that a nurse who entirely passes, who has surgery 20+ years ago, is petite and has worked in a female nursing role for two decades, should start letting all her colleagues and patients know?

That’s batshit.

All the Tories need to do is say that non binary and trans patients should have their own rooms. That’s it. But in 13 years they have failed to do this, or support trusts who have tried to put this in place. This is electoral dog whistling and nothing more.

Wrong thread

We need to ensure everyone is treated fairly, third spaces being available as necessary

You know trans activists consider talk of 3rd spaces to be a "TERF talking point".
They don't want 3rd spaces, they want women's spaces or, even better, for women's spaces to be entirely dismantled.

I apologise if I misread your intentions, I responded to what you posted.

I am angry and I'm sick and tired of hearing the be kind mantras wheeled out: it is unsafe and inappropriate for TW to use male sex segregated spaces and what about the genuine transexuals/true trans people.

There is zero evidence of any risk to TW using male sex segregated spaces.

I am also sick and tired of hearing women say I wouldn't mind, why say that? What is the point of saying it? Is it to shame those who do mind? To make them think they are not as open minded/cool as you? Or is it just to make yourself look 'better' in the eyes of others - a not me guv if it were up to me I'd let you in but those awful hags over there say no?

You are right it is not up to women to find the middle ground, there isn't one anyway, but it is not helped by women banging on about genuine transexuals and saying they wouldn't mind sharing female sex segregated spaces with them it does nothing but blur the boundaries and message.

Your friend should have the capacity as part of their job to care and respect that some of their patients have reasons to need single sex care, that it is about their responsibility and duty of care to their patient and not about them, and they can quietly and discreetly make arrangements with a manager that another nurse provides care when a same sex carer is needed. And that is their responsibility.

It is not up to women to let male people have absolute freedom of self expression when those male people have no willingness to care in reciprocation. And the entitlement is now off the scale.

So you all think that a nurse who entirely passes, who has surgery 20+ years ago, is petite and has worked in a female nursing role for two decades, should start letting all her colleagues and patients know?

Your friend shouldn't have lied in the first place, a typical man with no respect for women - just thinking of themselves as usual.

I’ve rarely come across patients who would ask for same sex care other than in mental health wards (or some geriatric)

Oh, really. You don't work with religious women who require same sex care, or women who have experience of dv or abuse? There are quite a lot of them, you know.

So you all think that a nurse who entirely passes, who has surgery 20+ years ago, is petite and has worked in a female nursing role for two decades, should start letting all her colleagues and patients know?

No need to 'let everyone know'. Just let line managers know they can't treat female patients who've specified female only care, that's it.

If this is a male who is so super convincingly female that women may not realise that they are transgender, then I would say there is a moral obligation, if not a legal one, to let people know, yes.

I'm sure as a caring person they wouldn't want to deceive anyone or win trust through deception or false pretences.

I don’t need to know about staff, I’m used to male HCP

I want female single sex wards though

Male TW can be in their own rooms but they don’t want that

The dog whistle line can bog off while it’s at it. More gaslighting.

Again, not the patients problem. They get to consent to who touches them end of. The free pass to lie and flout consent is precisely how we got here and it needs to end right now.

How well someone passes is irrelevant. They are and always will he the sex they were born as and there will be situations that matters. Anyone who thinks that doesn't apply to them is the precisely the person it should aplmy to most of all.

Why should a patient be forced to validate an identity and decisions of the person who's meant to be looking after them. I mean how entitled do u have to ne to make a sick and possibly dying patients last job , validating your identity. Its beyond disgusting