Trans women to be banned from female hospital wards

[Imnobody4]

Yes¡ Just done a little victory dance. I hope it really is as good as it sounds.

https://twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1708956051683295391?t=daMUSC8mbF_9sSi9ynIsIg&s=19

On Tuesday, Steve Barclay will announce proposals to push back against “wokery” in the health service that has led to women’s rights being increasingly sidelined.The changes would give men and women the right to be cared for on wards only shared by people of their own biological sex, and to have intimate care provided by those of the same sex.Mr Barclay said the plan would mean the return of “a common-sense approach to sex and equality”, ensuring that women’s dignity was protected and their voices heard.The proposals follow concerns from patients and staff about biological men being allowed on to women’s hospital wards. In 2021, NHS guidance said trans patients could be placed on single-sex wards on the basis of the gender with which they identified.

Worryingly this is just a small start, most likely to all be undone at the general election…

28 appears to be the figure for the USA given in that link.

Nearly half of those (167) took place in Brazil, and a further 28 were recorded in the United States.

I agree, which is why it is so important that people outside the party political system ( step forward TERF islanders!) carry on chipping away at the nonsense, exposing it for what it is and reminding people that feelings don’t trump science and evolutionary biology.

Many callers saying it's a "distraction" - that's gaslighting anyone who's been in a vulnerable position in hospital on a mixed sex ward.

The tories can be both tackling this and also being very rubbish at dealing with other things.

So trans people can stay in individual rooms?
Because I would hate to see the two trans men I know forced to stay on women's ward

Why? What do you think is going to happen to them?

What about Scotland?

Excellent!

Well for a start the women on the ward would wonder why there was a man there.

I agree with you that anyone who wants a healthy, working body part removed cannot be considered to be completely rational. This applies equally whether the body part in question is a penis or a limb. But we are told that the people who do this are not mentally ill (which is what I was alluding to in my earlier post). Yet at the same time we're told that they deserve our sympathy and support because they are mentally fragile and vulnerable.

Either (a) these people are mentally stable and have made a rational decision to modify their bodies and should have considered the consequences of this modification before setting out on this path (although the question remains as to whether a rational person would choose to do this at all) or (b) they are mentally unwell and deserving of our sympathy but nobody should have suggested to them that extreme body modification would help their mental health let alone carry out these extreme surgeries.

What it can't be is (c) they are mentally stable but they deserve our sympathy because they had no choice but to modify their bodies. That makes no sense at all.

But regardless of their mental state, no male belongs in a female hospital ward whether he has had his penis removed or not.

In my view this is being driven by politics. The Conservatives have dragged their feet over this and other issues for a long time but now, in the last Conference season before an election, there's a flurry of this and other related proposals.

I don't think it's kite-flying to check out support in the Conservative ranks. I think it's to wrong-foot Labour causing them either to take positions (something they're loath to do) or to be seen to run away from the issues while the public look on.

I completely agree with you @OldCrone and thankyou for putting more succinctly than I did :)

I'm not sure what you are poking at my comment for? I said I was pleased they had been banned from hospitals. I said women's rights shouldn't be sacrificed. The bit is the middle was acknowledging it is a difficult situation for genuine trans people. I dont think I need to explain or fully understand what I think a genuine transperson is, but I don't think a genuine transperson is a cross dressing sex offender. I don't know how many transwomen are killed by their partners, but you could look it up if you were interested? Yes our safe spaces need protection, especially hospital wards, prison cells, and sports teams. I just don't think we need to be completely anti trans to be a feminist.

Public sentiment has shifted in a short space of time

We have Isla Bryson to thank for that, look at Sturgeon

It’s coming up more now because men become more emboldened each year. And because they ramp up threats and violence to women who say no.

Politicians will do more the noisier we are. Well not the left, or the media there either

IMO it doesn't matter what is driving it and if it wrong foots Labour, then so what? They only have themselves to blame.

I think this will be about as effective as the plan to end mixed sex wards.

Well then it’s an easy fix for Labour given they’re ahead of the polls in everything else; come out and say the same (and what a woman is while they’re at it)

Tumbleweed so far…

If labour had a really clear strong view on this they would have my vote

Well that problem already exists when they put actual men on women's wards.

But in your post you said you were concerned about your friends being "forced" to be accommodated with other women not that you had any concerns about the women they would be accommodated with.

And what "population size" estimate were they using in that source?

Because I think that side of it may be controversial.

On one point I am in agreement with trans activists: just because a man is a sex offender doesn't mean he isn't trans.

Trans people are people and just as subject to failings as others. Transwomen are male and just as likely to be sex offenders as other males.

I dont think I need to explain or fully understand what I think a genuine transperson is, but I don't think a genuine transperson is a cross dressing sex offender.

If you are going to make comments about 'genuine transpeople', surely you do need to understand what you mean by this term and explain it to those who are not sure whether these mythical creatures actually exist.

Nobody is literally born in the wrong body. So what is genuine about a 'genuine transperson' which makes them distinct from a crossdresser or a male who is aroused by the thought of himself as a woman or a mentally unwell man who genuinely believes he is a woman? What are the objective criteria for someone to be considered a 'genuine transperson'?

And in no way is that an ' anti trans' statement. A transwoman is covered in the EA from discrimination just as a cross dressing sex offender is, on the basis of gender reassignment.

There's no good or bad moral judgement within being 'trans'.

Yes, the "distraction" is a distraction by activists to prevent this policy from happening.

Argue against the actual policy (which they know will be difficult) instead of trying to argue against the party etc.

This is a good thing, because it might force Labour to accept the change too.

Why the heck do they need a consultation? Just bloody well get on with it!