Trans women to be banned from female hospital wards

[Imnobody4]

Yes¡ Just done a little victory dance. I hope it really is as good as it sounds.

https://twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1708956051683295391?t=daMUSC8mbF_9sSi9ynIsIg&s=19

On Tuesday, Steve Barclay will announce proposals to push back against “wokery” in the health service that has led to women’s rights being increasingly sidelined.The changes would give men and women the right to be cared for on wards only shared by people of their own biological sex, and to have intimate care provided by those of the same sex.Mr Barclay said the plan would mean the return of “a common-sense approach to sex and equality”, ensuring that women’s dignity was protected and their voices heard.The proposals follow concerns from patients and staff about biological men being allowed on to women’s hospital wards. In 2021, NHS guidance said trans patients could be placed on single-sex wards on the basis of the gender with which they identified.

As with other posters I will wait until there's something concrete to celebrate.

Anyone can propose anything they like, it doesn't mean anything will change.

I really think that once people in society realise that adding boobs and removing cocks doesn’t make a male a woman the better it will be. Women’s and girl’s bodies are not Potato heads.

There has been this false perception that removal of a penis means that a male becomes harmless. This is not true. Just like there is this bizarre perception that these male people worked so hard to be a woman that they deserve to be treated as special.

It is purely based on emotive reasoning. Some people feel the need to protect these male people. Or to be ‘compassionate’. While forgetting that compassion does not go all one direction in these situations. Female people need compassion too.

But no. We continue to see people constantly arguing for special considerations for male people who opt to have their cocks chopped off and likely inverted to create a false cavity in their pelvis and their testicles chopped off too as some kind of very special person. One who miraculously loses their male propensity to commit violent and sexual crimes.

I really hope this is true

Yep. Many pennies may suddenly drop.

As noted above, if a male bodied person is desperate to avoid being in a men's ward there are side rooms available for exactly this sort of issue.

Women and women's bodies are not a resource the NHS is obliged to dish out on request to males who really really want to be near them.

How are you going to decide if someone is male or female? Check which marker is on their medical records? They can be changed. Check birth certificate? They can be changed.

The GRA needs repealing

The NHS making use if the separate fields for 'sex' and 'gender identity' would be a start. I believe there is the option but it's not used.

And hey, fancy a single room, rather than a shared ward?

Just say you’re non-binary…. 🙄

The NHS seems to be totally out of control on this matter. It is too big and the management seems to swallow every new, even more insane concepts.

This is good news but I am not celebrating until it happens. But anything that brings sunlight is good. The BMA rep was pressed on it this morning, and went with the ‘everyone needs to be respected’ line. It is at last becoming clear that women can’t be just ignored on this.

Surely a legacy consultation, as this may be, will make it very hard for labour to ignore this issue if they do get in next election?

Or has that penny also started to drop that if labour cannot win a majority government, they may be beholden to the lib Dems who are so far entrenched in these policies that it is rather hard to see them as anything but Stonewall’s political enforcers.

(I wrote this and then remembered the SNP completely ignored one particular consultation….)

@LizzieSiddal

Suella Braverman to ban sex offenders from changing name and gender

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4e2e437c-6159-11ee-aae8-b941e584b333?shareToken=7241f541aba8fa736aa5d557e129eca7

I am all for this, and hope it moves from a proposal to test the waters to actually doing something. There are many ways to meet the diverse needs of men without dumping them on women and removing women's privacy, dignity and safety because awwww poor man, what about this one? And this one? And this one with a beard who's flashing his bits all over the ward? And this one with a long history of sex offending?

No man needs entitlement to use random women as a therapeutic resource. Ever. Regardless of how vulnerable and pitiable their situation, women's bodies are not a bloody consolation prize.

We keep hearing words but not seeing deeds. Words are easy to roll back, Labour and Lib Dem's firmly in TWAW.

It's good but it's waaaaaay too slow. It was very quick to allow men in womens wards, in womens sport, all words referring to women and or stuff erased. All done without a pause, now why is it taking so long to go back? Why is it now needing to be considered and approached cautiously?

Cos men won't like having their toys taken away.

You can snatch stuff off women and that's fine, no one minds that, but sad men?

Courageous policy indeed.

Now this really is quite cynical because I do not know how they will enforce it. Because irrespective of whether sex offenders are trans (and personal experience suggests that is a self serving decision), there is a longstanding problem going back decades of sex offenders changing their name.

Unless lots of new staff on probation services this is real window dressing.

Oh yes. I can't believe it but I'm delighted. I'm due to have a baby in the new year and I was so shocked to see so much official literature describing 'chest feeding' and 'pregnant people'.

Sickening that before this comes in, biological men could be in a bed just metres away from a vulnerable 18 year old women.

Well done to those who campaigned and thanks for sharing.

Because the idiots who brought in the GRA didn’t think forward to how screwed women would be in law

And they didn’t think about huge invested TRA ready to take legal challenge and institutions picking up the ideology based on a legal lie so comprehensively

TRAs have the law on their side atm.

Could not agree with the last part more 👏

They changed the rules at my local maternity ward to allow men to start over night. It was apparently based on patient preference questionnaires.

It wasn't a pleasant experience after having my first child with no men overnight. Even though that time I'd had a c section and baby wasn't hugely well. I remember wishing he was there but also glad the partners of all the other women were not. It would have been extremely crowded and noisy.

After my second experience, only two of us on the ward but a young father who was incredibly tired and thus very useless for his partner (she made the point several times that she'd been labouring for a couple of days and would like a cup of tea) I'd prefer no partners after a certain time.

He also kept using the loo that was specifically for women to deal with lochia etc, right next to my bed.

Though actually, I've no idea if that's still the case post covid.

The amount of people crammed into one ward if full and partners staying over would have been ridiculous.

They have mixed wards in Canada. Purely monetary reasons (or so hospitals claim but it being Canada maybe that was a sneaky way to stop arguments about TW on F wards). This year, my friend who was absolutely bed ridden and could not get out / stand up was in a 4 bed room and two out of the 4 patients in the room were men.

One of them got up and started eating her dinner and no one came when she put on the call bell. Next day the same man came over and started stroking her feet. Again, no one came when she put on the call bell. She resorted to yelling at the man and another patient also yelled at him so he desisted. Fortunately she was moved to another hospital.

It should not have to be the worry of being raped for someone in a decision making capacity to appreciate and care that it is utterly unfair on women to have to feel unsafe for whatever reason when they are at their most vulnerable. God. What have we come to that women are deemed so disposable.

MEN banned from women's wards. Of course they bloody should.

Although born male, she would pose no risk to women/girls.

You think? Surgery doesn't always remove the impulse towards sexual aggression (if it was present before) exhibitionism, voyeurism, kinds of sexual assault which are not rape but are still much more common in males and don't change after surgical transition. Hormones can change the impulses but the results are not consistent. Certainly not "no risk".

You cannot assume that everyone who has had surgery is "safe". Even 30 years ago a transwomen told me there were mainly two kinds of transwomen who got surgery, well educated articulate professionals and people outside of society.

On a male ward, she could easily be gawped at/worse as she has boobs and all the bottom surgery.

And your friend wouldn't be gawped at on a female ward? Why not? Because women are too scared or too polite to gawp? Because women would be refused treatment if they gawp, while men would be allowed to gawp?

I imagine your friend would be in a side room to limit gawping opportunities either way.

It occurs to me that if a big fuss is made of this by TRAs it will only highlight it more to the public who aren't aware of what being trans often actually means in real terms.

Yes, making changes without telling the public is a TRA strategy (see the Dentons document). The NHS deliberately conflated sex and gender identity so they wouldn't have to tell the public that Annex B breaks the single sex policy. Or as the NHS put it, "the public wouldn't understand" by which they meant "the public would understand better than we do".

My husband poses no risk to women. Neither does my brother, brothers-in-law, late father, FIL, and many men I know.

Not one of them belong on the women’s ward.

Although born male, she would pose no risk to women/girls

This is seeing the situation solely through the male's point of view. As in, your friend says 'I wouldn't attack a woman/girl, therefore I present no risk'.

Seeing it from women's/girls' point of view, we note that women are entitled to privacy, dignity as well as safety, and most prefer a single sex space when they are vulnerable. There may be risks of upsetting women, of women being 'gawped' at by the male, of religious women who are not allowed to share spaces with males, of triggering abuse survivors, etc.