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Original poster

Jo Phoenix vs The OU Employment Tribunal 2nd October (whispers Ben Cooper)

996 replies

ickky · 25/09/2023 09:12

Employment Tribunal starts next Monday, not sure if it is available for remote viewing.

I have sent a request so we will see.

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15
CriticalCondition · 02/10/2023 18:30

Signalbox · 02/10/2023 18:15

Just imagine if people were asked what sex they are or if they have a disability or their ethnicity at the start of a court case. Why is this treated any differently? If people want to disclose their "pronouns" that should be up to them but to demand everyone do it is just absurd.

Or as a PP pointed out, what religion you are. Except this is worse because the pronoun question requires a declaration of belief whether you are an adherent of gender ideology or not. Why don't they go the whole hog and get everyone to swear the oath on a copy of Pink News. FFS.

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 02/10/2023 18:45

Does anyone know who the Counsel for the OU is?

the sound was poor so I didn’t hear the names. It looked and sounded like a woman (the old fashioned type) as the OU barrister. There was a man sitting next to her, I didn’t catch whether he was the OU solicitor or the OU representative.

Madcats · 02/10/2023 19:01

There are mutterings about a recusal on my bit of Twitter, whereas others are suggesting that a potential appeal could be quite useful should there indeed be any demonstrable bias.

Is it odd to give a new judge a 15-day trial that is going to be in the newspapers and which could have big implications for academia. Who decides who gets to preside over which cases?

You would have thought that they could have sorted out 'broadcasting' by now.

Farmageddon · 02/10/2023 19:10

CriticalCondition · 02/10/2023 18:30

Or as a PP pointed out, what religion you are. Except this is worse because the pronoun question requires a declaration of belief whether you are an adherent of gender ideology or not. Why don't they go the whole hog and get everyone to swear the oath on a copy of Pink News. FFS.

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Yes, agreed.
It would be akin to an employment tribunal about an atheist claiming discrimination at work for their non belief, where the judge starts proceedings by asking everyone to state their religion.
A completely unnecessary step and a bit of a slap in the face tbh.

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 02/10/2023 19:11

Is it odd to give a new judge a 15-day trial that is going to be in the newspapers and which could have big implications for academia. Who decides who gets to preside over which cases?

that’s a good question. Do they have a chambers type system where a clerk will see who’s available? I’d imagine finding someone with a clear 15 days plus in their diaries would be tricky. Maybe that’s why only a new judge would have that space? Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be along to tell us.

Original poster
ickky · 02/10/2023 19:52

@RocketPanda I hope it all went well today and you will be back with us soon.Flowers

You didn't miss much today.

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Original poster
ickky · 02/10/2023 19:56

Madcats · 02/10/2023 19:01

There are mutterings about a recusal on my bit of Twitter, whereas others are suggesting that a potential appeal could be quite useful should there indeed be any demonstrable bias.

Is it odd to give a new judge a 15-day trial that is going to be in the newspapers and which could have big implications for academia. Who decides who gets to preside over which cases?

You would have thought that they could have sorted out 'broadcasting' by now.

The Tribunal was originally supposed to be held in Cambridge, but it was moved to Watford about a month and half ago, so maybe the original Judge couldn't make it.

It does seem odd to appoint a very new Judge though.

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RethinkingLife · 02/10/2023 20:07

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 02/10/2023 11:44

The technology for remote meetings has moved on leaps and bounds recently. I recently attended a meeting in person that was a mix of shared and in person, but the whole room had been set up with microphone/audio such that the camera automatically picked out who was speaking wherever you were in the room. So the speaker could wander about at will, and the sound and vision were perfect. And this was not a posh "state of the art" company.

Was it an Owl Labs technology or one of those systems with ceiling mounted cameras that can zoom in on the speaker?

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 02/10/2023 20:21

RethinkingLife · 02/10/2023 20:07

Was it an Owl Labs technology or one of those systems with ceiling mounted cameras that can zoom in on the speaker?

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i had to google! The camera and microphones were in the ceiling. Although I am now reminded that have attended another event which had an owl-like gadget in the middle of a u-shaped table. I seem to remember a few more comments from the online attendees if the speaker at the front strayed from the microphone.

either system were light years ahead of the Watford set up.

RethinkingLife · 02/10/2023 20:55

either system were light years ahead of the Watford set up.

If it's any comfort, the US has been experimenting with streaming court hearings and by and large the audio is uniformly abysmal. And the judges endlessly repeat guidance about "cameras on, microphones on mute."

Bundlebungle · 02/10/2023 22:27

I'm getting my old user name out especially for this thread.
Looking forward to the eleventy billion sane witnesses.

LargeSquareRock · 03/10/2023 02:13

Bundlebungle · 02/10/2023 22:27

I'm getting my old user name out especially for this thread.
Looking forward to the eleventy billion sane witnesses.

Be careful not to summon the bundle bungler.

Bundlebungle · 03/10/2023 08:29

LargeSquareRock · 03/10/2023 02:13

Be careful not to summon the bundle bungler.

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😱

BoiledbeetleLovesBeautifullyBoundBundles · 03/10/2023 09:16

Bundlebungle · 03/10/2023 08:29

😱

Show quote history

Shhhhhhhh. Think of other things. Do not think of bundles!

dimorphism · 03/10/2023 09:24

Bundlebungle · 02/10/2023 22:27

I'm getting my old user name out especially for this thread.
Looking forward to the eleventy billion sane witnesses.

Is that self-ID 'sane' or observable to everyone else 'sane'? 😂

Ameanstreakamilewide · 03/10/2023 09:29

Happy thoughts! 🧘‍♀️

Happy thoughts! 🧘‍♀️

IcakethereforeIam · 03/10/2023 09:54

Please everyone, stop saying bu....that word! You know what'll happen😰👀

Chrysanthemum5 · 03/10/2023 10:04

Waiting for the conference host to join still

Chrysanthemum5 · 03/10/2023 10:05

Maybe they are discussing the blog the OU published yesterday saying they were right and that academic freedom had limits

Chrysanthemum5 · 03/10/2023 10:12

Oh yes I thought today was Wednesday!

Melissamelisante · 03/10/2023 10:21

Easily done! I had that last week, all family off sick at various times and I complete loss track of days and what not.

Chrysanthemum5 · 03/10/2023 10:28

Oh dear hope they are all feeling better now!

LarkLane · 04/10/2023 09:17

OU Employment Tribunal Statement 2nd October posted on Tribunal Tweets substack.

https://archive.ph/5Zlup
Professor Josie Fraser, Deputy Vice-Chancellor at The Open University, said:
“We believe we have acted lawfully, in good faith and that the actions we took were appropriate. However, we are open to learning from the outcome of the Tribunal and we will welcome any clarity or guidance this may bring.
“We are committed to making The Open University a place where everyone can be themselves and achieve their goals. This ambition is central to our mission and is supported by the commitments and actions set out in our Statement of Principles on Academic Freedom and our Equality, Diversity and Inclusion plan.”

Original poster
ickky · 04/10/2023 09:31

@LarkLane Well the fact they at least 2 people taking them court would suggest that this statement is bollocks.

See Pilgrim Tucker on crowd justice.

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