Hadley Freeman Article About Graham LInehan

[Igneococcus]

Not actually read it yet but here for anybody who'd like to read:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6f23ce7c-596a-11ee-a62b-d21c2c8f0b9b?shareToken=3adab3e87e06a1d37788d0b2482f02b6

The thing is, I think it's fine to try to walk a line where you can speak out about things you feel most strongly about about while being careful to protect your job, finances and relationships. Just keep your gob shut about the people who are giving it their all.

This is also well put.

Edging round hairy men in the loos and still being harangued to beeee kiiinnnd and vote Labour, I suspect.

Very well summed up @ScribblingPixie

Yes, absolutely. That was what I was trying to say, but you say it so much better.

You're doing a Hadley Freeman, aren't you? Are you Hadley Freeman?

🙄

Someone holds a different viewpoint to you, and that's your response?

Posters are allowed to differ. And entitled to voice that opinion & their reasons for it.

obviously it suits you to be hyperbolic about those sticking up for him.

Where on earth have I done that? Fyi I'm also sticking up for him!

we'd be anywhere near where we are today.
We're a long way from being in a strong position on this issue, sadly. I'm in Ireland. While the nightmarish excesses eg in academia have not hit here, equally, the level of critical thinking around it is not as well-defined as in the UK. Thankfully schools & teens (broadly speaking!) are less captured than the accounts I read here about the UK. However, the pushback that I see happening in the UK is not evident in Ireland where a lot of people simply support trans ideology as they vaguely think it's the right thing to do. (I work in a university & it's been quite alarming, all under the broader EDI umbrella)

Exactly this. Well put.

Just keep your gob shut about the people who are giving it their all.

I disagree. I agree that it's wrong to criticise individuals for the choices they make in this regard; I don't think it's wrong to put forward a view on the advisability or efficacy of what those choices entail.

I admire GL in many ways. I do not always agree with how he was framed his points, how he has attacked individuals, and the language he has chosen. That's allowed.

God, wouldn't we just, being advised to watch our language.

As Magdalen Berns (another ornery individual) said:

"I'd rather be rude than be a fucking liar"

I love Suzanne and subscribe to her Substack, but I do not believe she would make or support comparisons to Mengele. She's too astute and sensitive for that.

obviously it suits you to be hyperbolic about those sticking up for him.

Where on earth have I done that? Fyi I'malsosticking up for him!

Where you allude to those of us who support Graham as thinking he's a saint. No one who's met Graham IRL or watched him on You Tube could think for a moment he's a saint.

Do you really support him? Your take on the whole thing is just like HF's: she says she supports him but the abiding feel and impression is that she's silently mouthing 'but the situation he's in is all his own fault.'

Er, where did I say Suzanne Moore would compare the experimental surgery and treatment being carried out on young trans people with Mengele? I haven't mentioned Mengele at all.

@EarringsandLipstick, re efficacy I think I'd rather wait and see what the impact of his book is. I gathered from what HF said on Twitter the article was supposed to be a 'state of play' piece before publication rather than critical, so I think there's an expectation that his trajectory will be moving upwards.

Where you allude to those of us who support Graham as thinking he's a saint.

Well, you need to look up the definition of hyperbole then.

I provided an opinion based on some threads & posts I read here, of which some are absolutely reverential & praise him to the skies.

I didn't say that 'all' those who support GL think he's a saint. I support him. I don't think he's a saint.

It's so frustrating that nuances & differences of opinion are shot down like this.

Do you really support him? Your take on the whole thing is just like HF's: she says she supports him but the abiding feel and impression is that she's silently mouthing 'but the situation he's in is all his own fault.'

I support his arguments on trans ideology. I am GC and admire his passion & commitment.

As I've said several times, I don't agree with all his approaches, the extent of his fervour, his single-minded focus to the detriment of his personal well-being & family, and the nature of some of his highly personalised attacks on others.

It's so tiresome that you keep saying I'm 'just like HF'. Of course I'm not. In me. She's a journalist & another person. Just because I'm in agreement with an article she wrote doesn't make me her, or an acolyte, or 'just like her'.

I'm not silently mouthing anything either. I'm voicing my opinion. As are you. As is HF. And all of that is ok - and more than that - important.

That's interesting. And I hope so.

I feel Irish media, sadly, won't touch him or his book with a barge pole.

I didn't say you had. I was continuing the discussion from earlier in the thread, where several posters were defending the comparison of Mengele with 'gender affirming' surgeons.

Firstly, Graham himself didn’t mention Mengele, and second, in my view it’s not the validity of the comparison that is key, it’s why Hadley took issue with it three years ago but didn’t mention it publicly or privately to Graham until she published this article.

If she shares the same concerns about the comparison, then why not email him at the time? Why not interview him and challenge him now? Why bring it up this way? It’s the oddness of that I find most confusing, not the arguments around the comparison itself.

So why quote me? You've hauled me into an area of debate I've said nothing about. Not on.

And that's possibly because you don't have a brave Graham Linehan-type spokesman speaking out about the Irish situation each week on You Tube and prepared to keep going because he's the sort of person who stands up for what he knows to be right, rather than keeping his head down and sending out vague signals. You can't be a sensitive nuanced flower and do that.

You probably have to be based in the mainland UK, going to rallies and events and aware of the undercurrents stirring here, to appreciate how important Graham has been in the fight. He's not some peripheral character here, he's the only man to have stood up early on and said what we all know to be true and kept saying it loudly, despite the punches. What a dreadful irony and shame that his own country can't (yet) celebrate him.

Can anyone link to any evidence of the tweets or blogs involved? I realise GL was banned so perhaps it's not possible. I wasn't on Twitter in those days. I don't doubt what you say but would like to see for myself. Because if GL didn't mention Mengele and if HF didn't mention her concern publicly or privately to GL, this makes her article seem even more dodgy.

You probably have to be based in the mainland UK, going to rallies and events and aware of the undercurrents stirring here, to appreciate how important Graham has been in the fight. He's not some peripheral character here

Yes, I'm in mainland UK and it was on his podcast that I first heard David Bell talk in depth about the Tavistock. A big heads-ups that something had gone very very wrong. Graham Linehan did a huge amount to give a platform and get listeners to pay attention to knowledgeable people who were being ignored or silenced elsewhere.

The phrase ' mainland UK' is a bit odd in this context. It implies that Irish people in general inhabit some other part of the UK. And that Britain is part of the European mainland and we are not. Very confusing.

I used the phrase 'mainland UK' because I'm aware that a) Northern Ireland is part of the UK though not on the mainland and that b) reunification of NI and ROI is still a way off and while many people like to think of 'Ireland' as the entire island of Ireland, legally it's not. I'm also aware that many Northern Ireland citizens, while living in the UK and subject to UK law etc, hold ROI passports and consider themselves Irish. I'm married to one of those. I was trying to be clear when I said 'mainland UK' because in my experience Gender Ideology and the gender debate have yet to make much of an impact in NI outside the universities, while south of the border things are very different. Does that help your confusion or make it worse?