Hadley Freeman Article About Graham LInehan

[Igneococcus]

Not actually read it yet but here for anybody who'd like to read:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6f23ce7c-596a-11ee-a62b-d21c2c8f0b9b?shareToken=3adab3e87e06a1d37788d0b2482f02b6

If only she’d stuck with just a tinkly laugh.

I'm sorry, but I find it really hard to see how anyone could not see how that article would be received by the person it is about. No one wants to be pitied. No one wants to be portrayed as 'no one wanting to be them.' She could have written an article about his bravery, his courage, that he saw what was happening when others didn't. That he spoke when others were silent. That he was David against bloody Goliath. It could have been positive, recognising his strengths and perseverance, despite the great personal costs. But she didn't.

When you are up against the odds like he is, you want cheerleaders. You want recognition to fortify you to continue.

If Hadley is surprised GL is pissed and upset about this, then I am surprised at her complete inability to read the room on this one. Talk about being tone deaf.

Mr Menno's take on her article is right on the mark. She owes GL an apology. A public one.

And I agree with this.

It makes for an uncomfortable read.
Wished I'd just stuck with @DogsAkimbo excellent précis.

No one wants to be pitied. No one wants to be portrayed as 'no one wanting to be them.' She could have written an article about his bravery, his courage, that he saw what was happening when others didn't. That he spoke when others were silent. That he was David against bloody Goliath. It could have been positive, recognising his strengths and perseverance, despite the great personal costs. But she didn't.
**
When you are up against the odds like he is, you want cheerleaders. You want recognition to fortify you to continue.

100% @beachstones

her line on Twitter seems to be ‘this is an explanation for readers of the ST who may not be familiar with what happened to him’ which seems to be a bit of a stretch given the ST we’re covering this before a lot of other newspapers. Even if that’s true, it’s very damning with faint praise!

Google Mengele if you have the stomach, folks - what is happening to trans kids is awful but to compare it with the Nazis is off the chart. I'm no expert in the history of medical scandals but I'm sure you can find a better analogy if you want. Tbh I think the facts of the medicalisation of trans kids speak for themselves and no such hyperbole is needed

I don’t think that anyone is claiming an exact equivalence. I think that what people, including Glinner, are saying is that there are some cross overs and elements that bear some similarity in practical and ethical senses.

Yes! You can imagine David versus Goliath in 2023.

‘I don’t know who needs to hear this, but I find David quite problematic. Clearly he didn’t stop to consider Goliath’s intersectionality. By celebrating David we’re centering those with small size privilege first. Goliath doesn’t identify as a Goliath and deserves to be able to fight Davids and win. David ultimately played dirty by refusing a fist battle. I also want to point out, for those of you that need to know, how heteronormative David is and how that also plays into our views on who should gave won this battle. Big 👏🏻 Goliaths 👏🏻 deserve 👏🏻 to 👏🏻 win 👏🏻 too 👏🏻’

her line on Twitter seems to be ‘this is an explanation for readers of the ST who may not be familiar with what happened to him’ which seems to be a bit of a stretch given the ST we’re covering this before a lot of other newspapers.

Agreed. And if that is the point of the article, why is so much of it about her?

I think she often brings herself into her articles. Which I don’t mind too much when it’s a famous person being profiled and she’s talking about her experience as a fan or whatever, but it’s jarring here as she’s comparing herself to him. It comes across as how she did it better than he did.

The problem being 1. that the doctors are operating on children, or very young people who are not able to understand the actual consequences of being mutilated and steriliser in this particular manner.
and 2. in addition; the people undergoing the procedures evidently have not been clearly told what the dangers are, how often the operations require multiple follow-up operations and 3. in general very often results in pain and outright tragedy.

This is where the Mengele comparison perhaps is justified.

Though I think we should give them their own moniker. The atrocities comitted are their own. Built on a different ideology to the nazi’s ideology, and sinister enough in its own right.

No one wants to be pitied. No one wants to be portrayed as 'no one wanting to be them.' She could have written an article about his bravery, his courage, that he saw what was happening when others didn't. That he spoke when others were silent. That he was David against bloody Goliath. It could have been positive, recognising his strengths and perseverance, despite the great personal costs. But she didn't.

Agreed. A great shame that she wrote this and yes, I think she needs to apologise.

Hm, not sure what happened to the post I meant to quote?!

HF shouldn’t feel she needs to apologise. She wrote what she meant to write. I’d like to think we aren’t the side that make people bow down and re-educate. I’ve only seen one apology in the whole of this sorry state that I feel is genuine and that happens along time after the fact and that was from John Boyne to GL. After what John Boyne write I see no added benefit to what HF wrote.

Glinner is an outlier, an extreme personality.

When he knew this was wrong he couldn't let it go and it consumed him.
I suspect it felt like he didn't have a choice he just couldn't walk away from something so obviously wrong.

It's not a recipe for an easy or a happy life but those rare people who devote and sacrifice themselves to a cause are important & necessary.

It's not an advisable way to live, I'm not even sure it's admirable but those of us who don't have that level of commitment should be thankful for those that do and should support them.
It's the least we can do.

Perfectly put Malaga

I’ve not read the full thread, I’m sure this has been said over and over. The likes of Graham Linehan and Kellie Jay Keen are honest, uncompromising, potentially abrasive and very direct - some people don’t like that approach. But they have absolutely changed the narrative. If it wasn’t for them speaking as plainly as they do, I dread to think where we’d be now.

They have paved the way for us all to be a little more honest, a little braver and a little more clear. I have so much respect for them, they have paid a high price.

I don’t think she needs to apologise either but it does seem as though she wrote something that wasn’t intended in the way a lot of people have received it.

Graham Linehan is talking to Neil Innes and n Radio 4 Extra at the moment. Not sure what year it’s from but it’s wonderful to hear.

I agree with all this.

It's not a recipe for an easy or a happy life but those rare people who devote and sacrifice themselves to a cause are important & necessary.

This reminds me of a quote (which annoyingly I can't now find) about why so many geniuses can be unpleasant people to be around. Something like: reasonable men adapt themselves to their current circumstances, and therefore all progress is necessarily made by unreasonable men. Glinner could on some view be seen as acting 'unreasonably' - and thank goodness for that.

Yes this is the same for me @DogsAkimbo .
I think Glinner's mentioned it a few times on the Mess and on Twitter, trying to call Elon Musk's attention to it (apparently to no avail).

Thank you! It must be really frustrating for him, given the parody ones get to show up fine.

I interpreted it as this too. It’s for the muggles who may not even know what all the fuss about Lineham is about.

I think that last paragraph is just mean. Kick a man to close a cadence, eh?

Yep. It’s unnecessary and not true. I would give an arm for his comedy talent and success! And doggedness, actually.

But the tragedy of Linehan is that no one — not his comedy fans, not his gender-critical supporters — would want to be him now.

@rockl0bster
unhealthily preoccupied and quick to anger

What makes GL's preoccupation unhealthy? Are you saying that because he's a man? Would your opinion differ if he was a woman?

Why shouldn't he be as concerned and angry about the way women and girls and children are being treated as I am? Why should he not devote his time to this important issue? (No-one is currently employing him to write comedy...)

I can tell he's angry (so am I), however he does strive to keep it in check, and base his arguments on facts.