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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Who has most disappointed you?

527 replies

Calistano · 18/09/2023 14:11

I'd say Russell T Davies when he had his drunken rant. I get his concern that lgbt is being fractured. But his absent concern for Women and their rights was palpable. I honestly thought he had more sense.

OP posts:
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Snowypeaks · 18/09/2023 15:30

CurlewKate · 18/09/2023 15:25

@MargotBamborough "I mean, I get it, she's an old woman"

I'm sorry-what the fuck do you mean by this?

Without wishing to speak for another poster, isn't it obvious what is meant? That it would be understandable for an old woman not to want to face the flying monkeys of the gender zealots.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 18/09/2023 15:33

I took it to mean she is old enough to be frail and to have less stamina and resilience than a younger person would have. This is just a fact of old age, sadly. I have a living example sitting fairly close to me.

MargotBamborough · 18/09/2023 15:34

CurlewKate · 18/09/2023 15:25

@MargotBamborough "I mean, I get it, she's an old woman"

I'm sorry-what the fuck do you mean by this?

Sorry, let me explain.

So Margaret Atwood is the same age as Germaine Greer, and I think it's entirely possible that neither of them will live long enough to see this period relegated to a "what the fuck were people thinking?" episode in history. (I'm convinced, however, that JK Rowling will be entirely vindicated in her lifetime.)

Margaret Atwood said something that could have been interpreted as mildly gender critical and was immediately piled on by trans activists so she recanted and went TWAW.

She doesn't believe it. There's no way she believes it. She knows full well what a woman is and why a trans woman isn't one. But I think she cares about her legacy, she doesn't want to put her head above the parapet and have this fight at her age, and she would like to die a beloved and very successful writer, not be cancelled and go to her grave a pariah.

Whereas Germaine Greer is just like, I don't give a shit, I'm an old woman, what are you doing to do to me? You don't scare me.

Maybe, as I said before, Germaine Greer wouldn't have been so outspoken if she was currently making loads of money from a high profile commercially successful adaptation of her books. She doesn't have nearly so much to lose.

But I think Margaret Atwood cares too much about her legacy and doesn't want people to hate her, so she's chosen the path of least resistance.

Waitwhat23 · 18/09/2023 15:36

Waitwhat23 · 18/09/2023 15:07

Every Scottish politician, across every party, with only a few exceptions.

I used to be proud of my country, our Government, Parliament and institutions. I'm absolutely mortified now.

Actually to expand on this, in particular any MSP who voted against the six words amendment in the Forensic Medical Examiners Bill (Scotland). I will never, ever vote for any one of them, no matter what happens. There's no golden bridge for them in that respect.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/09/2023 15:40

All of the people mentioned above. Anyone looking at you particularly Dara and Ben goldacre who make a living out of highlighting bollocks science but go along with TWAW because they’re cowards

Andante57 · 18/09/2023 15:40

Anyone in the Harry Potter world who hasn't supported JKR.

Yes - the three main child actors (as they were when they started - sorry, can’t remember their names whose careers were made by Harry Potter. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

IcakethereforeIam · 18/09/2023 15:41

@CurlewKate Are....are you Margaret Atwood?

CoalTit · 18/09/2023 15:42

I watched the box set of The IT crowd recently and loved it. I googled Katherine Parkinson and Chris O'Dowd because I thought they were great, and interviews with both of them came up. Both of them immediately denounced "the writer" as soon as they were questioned about the so-called transphobic episode, and said it should be censored for being offensive, but where Chris O' Dowd seemed keen to get his denunciation over as quickly as possible ("Do it to Julia!), Katherine Parkinson took the opportunity to complain about the denounced/unperson/ Graham Linehan objectifying her, because he had her change her own curly hairstyle and vintage clothes to a more conventional, corporate look to record the show.
I felt sorry for them both (and Matt Berry), knowing that they had so much to lose if they didn't publicly denounce "the writer" (seriously, that's how they referred to him) on being indirectly told to do so by the lower-status interviewing minions who would happily tear them to shreds to enhance their own credentials if given half a chance. Who knows how any of us would have reacted in their position.
But it seemed so cowardly and petty of Katherine Parkinson to voluntarily go the extra mile and complain that the denounced/unperson/Linehan/director had obliged to her to dress the part while she was performing as the ambitious, career-oriented Jen, and that he objectified her character. Her anti-hero character was so good, and Parkinson played her so well, and now she's so enthusiastically, unthinkingly joining in the character assassination of the show's creator, it really brought home the senseless viciousness of the era we're living in.
As a society we're no better than the kids in Mao's red guard, or the accusers at Zugarramurdi or Salem.

Kilopascal · 18/09/2023 15:43

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

I feel for you there.

A few years ago there was no way I could have a sensible conversation with my sister either (trans niece), but we can talk now.

My son is a full-on beardy bro. That's a bit disappointing.
My daughter, on the other hand, has just seen too much tiptoeing and cancelling and mad-eyed woman-hating ranting at university. She finds her brother quite annoying right now, as he's like a dog with a bone on the subject, and seems happy to give her rights away in the process.

Kucinghitam · 18/09/2023 15:49

All the names already mentioned.

With extra dollops of disappointment for all the so-called Science and Rationality Brave Speakers of Truth (Goldacre, Roberts, the USAian New Atheist crowd, etc) who have proved themselves anything but.

RhannionKPSS · 18/09/2023 15:51

Margaret Atwood & Helena Kennedy are at the top of a very long list, and like a pp there are no golden bridges from me with regards to any MSP who voted for the GRC reform in Scotland. Those who voted against the “ six words “ can all go feck themselves too. They are evil, spineless cowards.

RealityFan · 18/09/2023 15:52

GingerPanda · 18/09/2023 15:23

Oh no, what did Ben Goldacre say?

Its the usual form. He doesn't say anything. If anyone should be front and centre on exposing the scam and scandal of teen medicalisation, it should be him.

When he does speak, he's unequivocally ok with this movement.

Part of getting to grips with all this is working out whether it's a bug or a feature of liberal humanists (of which I'm a member).

Is it a bug, in that a wrinkle in thinking, a viral group dynamics mass hallucination came over the vast swathe of civic society?

Is it a feature, in that the post stratified world of more fixed religious structures and ethics informed by both religion and modernity has been replaced by a way more subjective/authentic self/be kind and never ever judge/you make your own fate and future, and thus society is less cohesive.

Of course in this latter world, some things remain universal even if anarchy like TWAW is touted as the new "norm"...status, control, feel good, power, peer adulation, ambition, strata and levels, us versus them, the 1% versus the 99%, we know better than the unwashed masses.

And a belief in trans liberation ticks so many of these boxes in our brave new world. Goldacre may deep down have doubts on the inevitable sterility and early osteoporosis of medicalised teens. But he gets more status and peer approval going along with the flow.
Ditto Dr. Brian Cox. You'd think Sir David Attenborough would say something. But his legacy is as the very public face of the campaign to go Carbon Zero, he could never diverge from trans activist Greta Thunberg and her legion of Gen Z activists.

And the more money you make, the less you'll ever rock the boat, huge exception being JKR.
How Adele, Harry Styles, Beyonce, Bruce Springsteen, Dave Grohl, Florence, Bjork etc can ever sleep soundly after refusing to raise one word to support Róisín proves that liberal so called principled human rights supporting artists, happy to go nuts online against the Tories, Brexit, Trump, evangelical Christians etc, have zero substance.

Fukuraptor · 18/09/2023 15:54

It's remarkable that Philip Pullman can't see the connections between his work and what we're facing.

Not only the child cutters preventing children growing to sexual maturity, but also the culture of adults being scared of children in the League of Saint Alexander.

Most disappointing has probably been Labour women I admired and thought would have been great leaders who have been absent or dismissive on this issue.

RaininginDarling · 18/09/2023 15:57

Agree with all the above.

I have a special contempt for the science personalities who have either kept quiet or joined the baying mob. If your job is literally about getting to the heart of scientific evidence on anything but this, you are an extraordinary coward.

Their behaviour will not age well.

I am particularly disappointed in the comedy world. I can't believe just how pathetic some well-known individuals have been on this. (And I know a lot of them know its BS behind closed doors.) Well, at least we - and they - know how they respond to totalitarianism when it comes knocking.

inkjet · 18/09/2023 15:58

Private Eye
Helena Kennedy
Liberty
ACLU

Also lawyers in general. It still amazes me so many let themselves be captured by people who don’t know the law and just let them get on with it.

donquixotedelamancha · 18/09/2023 15:58

The Fawcett Society. The Women's Equality Party. They had one fucking job.

People who's expertise is in acting/music/whatever don't disappoint me, except that they should have the brains to realise their ignorance.

TotalOverhaul · 18/09/2023 16:01

MargotBamborough · 18/09/2023 14:35

Oh, Philip fucking Pullman.

Ghastly man.

Really? I thought he was outspoken in favour of women and genuine free speech. What has Pullman done to make you think he is a ghastly man?

StephanieSuperpowers · 18/09/2023 16:02

My brother. He's not a stupid man and I would never have previously accused him of being cynical or blinkered or a panderer or a misogynist. I had a great deal of respect for his insight and opinions but on this subject, he's all shouting and bluster and hasn't a coherent thought to string together, except that I'm evil. We used to be able to talk about everything.

Green Party. Believe the science my ample bottom.

Women's groups who've allowed themselves to be completely taken over by this absolute nonsense on stilettos.

RoseslnTheHospital · 18/09/2023 16:03

donquixotedelamancha · 18/09/2023 15:58

The Fawcett Society. The Women's Equality Party. They had one fucking job.

People who's expertise is in acting/music/whatever don't disappoint me, except that they should have the brains to realise their ignorance.

Agree with this. Really disappointed with WEP and with women's orgs like the Fawcett and Athena Swan.

TheFirstStraw · 18/09/2023 16:06

Oh, and quite disappointed in Rage Against The Machine. And Shirley Manson. Though in a way, not hugely surprised.

The funny thing with Brian Cox is that his wife is outspokenly gender critical, and I'm sure a few beardy bros have tried to tell him to 'control his woman' on Twitter. I seriously doubt he believes in it all.
And with Dave Grohl, isn't he good mates with Dave Chapelle?

ArabeIIaScott · 18/09/2023 16:07

The NHS.
The Judiciary.
Rape Crisis.
Women's Aid.
The MoJ.
The DoE.
EHRC.
Every single fucking politician in the Scottish Parliament bar a very few.
Every single Labour Party MP.
Every single Green Party MP bar a very few.
The Guardian.
The BBC.
Academia in general.
Most writers, particularly Stephen King the craven fucking arsehole.
Most artists.
Most journalists.
Most musicians.
Most comedians.

ArabeIIaScott · 18/09/2023 16:08

Thanks, OP, that was slightly cathartic if a bit depressing.

ArabeIIaScott · 18/09/2023 16:09

Oh. Also:

the UN.

ArabeIIaScott · 18/09/2023 16:09
Animated GIF

I'm going to be here all bloody night.

ValkyrieAssassin · 18/09/2023 16:10

TidyDancer · 18/09/2023 14:19

Anyone in the Harry Potter world who hasn't supported JKR. The majority of the Labour Party.

I agree with this.