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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Who has most disappointed you?

527 replies

Calistano · 18/09/2023 14:11

I'd say Russell T Davies when he had his drunken rant. I get his concern that lgbt is being fractured. But his absent concern for Women and their rights was palpable. I honestly thought he had more sense.

OP posts:
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HBGKC · 10/10/2023 17:19

What did Helena Kennedy do/say (or not do/ not say)?

AInightingale · 10/10/2023 17:39

The lunacy disappoints me.

I was just idly flicking through the Guardian Online (another longterm disappointment) and came across this book review. Eve by Cat Bohannon review – long overdue evolutionary account of women and their bodies | History books | The Guardian

Oh that sounds a wonderful book, a very timely and necessary book, I thought...then the author is quoted, 'It's clear that transwomen ARE women.' In the middle of a fucking book about the evolution of the female body? Perhaps the publisher insisted, to allay any criticism or in fear of the descent of the Trannish Inquisition?

Eve by Cat Bohannon review – long overdue evolutionary account of women and their bodies

The American writer traces the female form back to our ‘true ancestors’ in an epic combination of science and speculation that places women at the centre of history

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/10/eve-how-female-body-drove-200-million-years-of-human-evolution-by-cat-bohannon-review

Rudderneck · 10/10/2023 17:42

Igneococcus · 07/10/2023 07:59

When I've said that I think this is a problem, the response is often, those things may be nice, but aren't necessary for a scientist to do his or her job. I beg to differ, I think what we are seeing now, or some of the crazy attitudes of some doctors and scientists around covid, show that this kind of wider understanding is necessary. Otherwise you really just have a sort of technician.

But technician jobs are usually what someone with a BSc or often an MSc will be doing. I even know a few PhDs who are basically technicians, at least in the UK and also US or NZ/AUS. In some other countries, Germany for example, there are schools for technician training and you wouldn't expect to become a technician with a university degree but here it's different.
When I first came to the UK for a postdoc (my second) I was really disappointed with the general lack of curiosity in anything outwith their immediate research area in the grad students and the other postdocs and that was at one of the highly regarded UK universities. Very different to anywhere I had been as a student or postdoc before.

Yes, and perhaps that is really the level such people are a.

But I think universities should be teaching their scientists so that they are actually able to put their scientific understanding in a wider context. Even if they do go on to do some sort of technician.

CrossPurposes · 10/10/2023 17:46

HBGKC · 10/10/2023 17:19

What did Helena Kennedy do/say (or not do/ not say)?

She supports transwomen being housed in prisons according to their gender identity.

From a 2018 review:

"But when it comes to the nuances and complexities of housing trans women in female prisons, her usually fiercely critical eye is strangely absent. Our prison system, she writes, “too often locks up transgender prisoners according to their genitals rather than their chosen gender identity, and often with tragic consequences”, as if these choices are clear-cut. It is perhaps not fair to pull Kennedy up by citing the case of multiple rapist and paedophile Karen White who was housed in a female prison and subsequently sexually assaulted two female inmates, since it was made public after Eve Was Shamed went to print, but this situation was surely foreseeable."

www.theguardian.com/books/2018/oct/14/eve-was-shamed-how-british-justice-failing-women-review-helena-kennedy

MargotBamborough · 10/10/2023 18:22

CrossPurposes · 10/10/2023 17:46

She supports transwomen being housed in prisons according to their gender identity.

From a 2018 review:

"But when it comes to the nuances and complexities of housing trans women in female prisons, her usually fiercely critical eye is strangely absent. Our prison system, she writes, “too often locks up transgender prisoners according to their genitals rather than their chosen gender identity, and often with tragic consequences”, as if these choices are clear-cut. It is perhaps not fair to pull Kennedy up by citing the case of multiple rapist and paedophile Karen White who was housed in a female prison and subsequently sexually assaulted two female inmates, since it was made public after Eve Was Shamed went to print, but this situation was surely foreseeable."

www.theguardian.com/books/2018/oct/14/eve-was-shamed-how-british-justice-failing-women-review-helena-kennedy

Once again, louder for those at the back:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PRISON WHICH MATCHES YOUR GENDER IDENTITY.

PRISON IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A GENDER AFFIRMING SPACE.

PRISON IS WHERE YOU GO TO BE PUNISHED FOR COMMITTING CRIMES.

IF THE IDEA OF SERVING TIME IN A PRISON WHICH MATCHES YOUR GENITALS IS UNTHINKABLE FOR YOU, DON'T COMMIT CRIMES.

HBGKC · 10/10/2023 19:48

Thank you - that is indeed very disappointing.

CorruptedCauldron · 10/10/2023 20:31

AInightingale · 10/10/2023 17:39

The lunacy disappoints me.

I was just idly flicking through the Guardian Online (another longterm disappointment) and came across this book review. Eve by Cat Bohannon review – long overdue evolutionary account of women and their bodies | History books | The Guardian

Oh that sounds a wonderful book, a very timely and necessary book, I thought...then the author is quoted, 'It's clear that transwomen ARE women.' In the middle of a fucking book about the evolution of the female body? Perhaps the publisher insisted, to allay any criticism or in fear of the descent of the Trannish Inquisition?

Insane. She’s writing about women‘s bodies. I’m sure most TW (the likes of India W excepted) are very aware they have male bodies, which conflict with their inner sense of gender - assuming they have dysphoria. They’re male people who ‘feel’ female, whatever it feels like to be female. They’re not women. I’m a woman and even I don’t bloody know what it means to have lady genderfeels. I know what it feels like to have a woman’s body and to have society react to me as a female person because that’s my reality and that’s what I am. When will this gaslighting batshittery ever end? Can’t we treat TW courteously without lying to them (and ourselves) that they are literal women?! Whoever started this TWAW falsehood has caused untold damage.

Villagetoraiseachild · 10/10/2023 20:38

Thank you Margot Bamborough for your Upper Case Clarity!

Villagetoraiseachild · 10/10/2023 20:44

Agree, Corrupted Cauldron. Writing about womens bodies whilst still curtseying and making prostrations of obeisance to the male....

RealityFan · 10/10/2023 20:55

For some reason I thought the neuroscientist and philosopher Sam Harris was lost to this cause, but I've been happy to find he's been calmly and deftly talking publically about the madness of the age.

He's also made some pithy observations about the Israel-Hamas conflagration

PorcelinaV · 10/10/2023 21:25

RealityFan · 10/10/2023 20:55

For some reason I thought the neuroscientist and philosopher Sam Harris was lost to this cause, but I've been happy to find he's been calmly and deftly talking publically about the madness of the age.

He's also made some pithy observations about the Israel-Hamas conflagration

Can you link anything?

I kind of liked Sam Harris, despite mostly disagreeing with him.

Brewdug · 20/10/2023 09:49

A trivial one, but telling. Icelandic Eurovision star Dadi Freyr. A quirky, nerdy pop musician whose social feeds are usually funny bits plugging his new album and tour. No big opinions or politics at all of any kind, until last night...

A tweet directly to JKR, apropos of nothing telling her to "crawl inside yourself and stay there". Why, with all the awful things going on in the world right now, would that be the one thing you felt you just had to step out of your inoffensive, casual persona to put forward? I am so disappointed that he would direct abuse to anyone, never mind show himself up as someone with no time for women.

The last time I checked though, there were about 40 replies with all but one calling him a misogynistic arsehole and it was gone by this morning. He will not be used to anything but fawning positive feedback on socials so it will have come as a shock to get that sort of response. A little bit of tide turning, perhaps.

Who has most disappointed you?
enchantedsquirrelwood · 20/10/2023 10:29

IF THE IDEA OF SERVING TIME IN A PRISON WHICH MATCHES YOUR GENITALS IS UNTHINKABLE FOR YOU, DON'T COMMIT CRIMES

Well, quite. It's not really that difficult is it? And even though we have high prisoner numbers, it is still very difficult to "accidentally" commit a crime that is serious enough to lead to a prison sentence (except for the terrible example of the Post Office Horizon debacle).

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 20/10/2023 10:49

The idea of going to prison for most of us would be horrifying, meaning that, even if we were minded to commit terrible crimes in the first place, the prospect of being locked up would act as a huge deterrent. That's one of the very main points of prison.

If you don't like the idea of any of:
Losing your liberty and freedoms
Losing your job and future career prospects
Being separated from your family
Public and social shame
Living somewhere horrid and very restrictive
Bad food
etc...........

Then you do the relatively easy thing of not committing a crime, to ensure that you won't have to experience these (I'm aware that some innocent people do get wrongfully imprisoned).

Why would you (maybe grudgingly) accept all of these as condign; yet somehow believe that you still get a say in which sex prison you get sent to, according to your identity preferences? If it was as simple as that, why not just re-identify as a non-criminal and then expect to be released altogether?

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 20/10/2023 10:55

Wasn't there an infamous prisoner recently who identified as a baby, expecting to be treated as such - needlessly soiling himself and being cleaned up and changed and such?

The same prisoner who, extremely unusually for a baby, also strangled a man to death after being imprisoned?

As we don't imprison actual babies for 'crimes' that they may 'commit' (I realise that some babies with criminal mothers do end up living in prison) - and, as a violent man, this status clearly didn't apply to him - why would the authorities ignore his identity of being 'a baby' when locking him up in the first place, but then bizarrely respect his identity as 'a woman'?

Waitwhat23 · 20/10/2023 11:00

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 20/10/2023 10:55

Wasn't there an infamous prisoner recently who identified as a baby, expecting to be treated as such - needlessly soiling himself and being cleaned up and changed and such?

The same prisoner who, extremely unusually for a baby, also strangled a man to death after being imprisoned?

As we don't imprison actual babies for 'crimes' that they may 'commit' (I realise that some babies with criminal mothers do end up living in prison) - and, as a violent man, this status clearly didn't apply to him - why would the authorities ignore his identity of being 'a baby' when locking him up in the first place, but then bizarrely respect his identity as 'a woman'?

No prizes for guessing where....

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/trans-murderer-prison-identify-baby-26669658.amp&int_campaign

duc748 · 20/10/2023 11:40

Can't bear to click! 😀

Had enough of That Sort Of Thing lately.

Rudderneck · 20/10/2023 12:51

PorcelinaV · 10/10/2023 21:25

Can you link anything?

I kind of liked Sam Harris, despite mostly disagreeing with him.

He's a serious victim of Trump Derangement syndrome though, and Covid derangement syndrome too.

PorcelinaV · 20/10/2023 13:12

Rudderneck · 20/10/2023 12:51

He's a serious victim of Trump Derangement syndrome though, and Covid derangement syndrome too.

He recently got himself into controversy over Trump.

This Christian apologist is trying to use what he said to undermine him:

Atheists Trusted Sam Harris, Until . . .

Sam Harris has been criticizing Christianity and Islam for decades, and he has often made significant factual blunders. Is there an underlying methodology th...

https://youtu.be/9EbsZ10wqnA

Rudderneck · 20/10/2023 13:20

Oh gosh, that guy is funny in a completely unconvincing way. And I think SH is a fraud really.

mrsmiawallace3 · 12/09/2024 21:56

I did try quite hard to be suitably disappointed in David Grohl ; but just wasn't feeling it.

lonelywater · 13/09/2024 00:10

Janina Ramirez-was amazed to find she is a Kool aid guzzler.

duc748 · 13/09/2024 01:15

It's like you're not surprised by show-biz (and grateful for the exceptions), but when it's smart people who should know better... 😑

Zelle70 · 13/09/2024 17:41

Oh easy. I had a favourite author, Anna Stephens, and I championed her to all I met, bought all her books and love her style of writing. She posted a photo on FB wearing that awful 'You'll Have To Go Through Me' T-shirt re protecting trans children.
Very civilly, I replied to her post urging her to read the Cass Review and visit WRN and/or Sex Matters websites to see how the Trans movement was misogynistic, homophobic and child abuse.

She replied saying she'd 'rather put her hands in a blender' than do that and said the Cass review had been debunked. Then lots of 'allies' jumped on the thread and I left. She then found and blocked me on X, hilarious!