Leaked recording exposes trans turmoil at The Guardian (Times, 12/09/23)

[BettyFilous]

Interesting to see this article surface.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b16ddb8a-50df-11ee-a518-203f78f24415?shareToken=77b1ad072e9c62fff94095120488bc5d

The Guardian is embroiled in more turmoil over its stance on the trans debate, with an internal meeting setting staff at loggerheads.

I dislike diversity as a word.

Representation is much better and more positive.

I have a mate who observes frequently that for all the left's (her word) professed abhorrence of all things and movements and attitudes American, they seem remarkably keen to adopt some of them.

And that's particularly weird given that the American left has never achieved anything.

I think it is just buddying-up to the big guy. We haven't got our own, old empire anymore but we can be best mates with the guy who has the new one.

That and the fantasy of the fabled "Special Relationship" that no one in the USA has even heard of.

Not forgetting that the "After Dinner" and Conference speaking circuit is lucrative and jetting to USA more convenient than the crazy long-haul down to Oz.

The fact is that more diversity isn't always good, more inclusion isn't always good, and more equity isn't always good.

And there are other important values, like justice, or fairness.

Personally, I'd challenge the idea that a society with perfect representation of all groups, in every sector, is a particularly desirable thing to go for. If there are groups with a strong tradition of entrepreneurship, or military service, or certain sports, they will be proportionately over-represented, and by extension, some other groups will be under-represented. Where I live, there is a large portion of the dairy industry that is dominated by one particular ethnic group. It's perpetuated strongly because they tend to want to marry into other dairy families, because the lifestyle is so demanding. I'm not sure why that kind of thing is actually a problem.

It irks me that the Guardian holds these debates internally but they rarely hit the pages of the actual newspaper.

I saw the other day that my rugby club was having a Festival of Inclusivity, and I must admit I shuddered for a moment. Reader, I need not have worried:

https://x.com/wiganwarriorsrl/status/1702351506631000162?s=46

Just including the whole community. At least someone knows how to do it the right way.

That was great thanks duc

I just thought it was a really nice thing, and they do lots of this sort of stuff. The guy at the beginning is the Chief Exec, himself a famous old player.

This reminds me of the occasional articles about how "the countryside is racist", "National Parks are not inclusive", etc. based on surveys of the ethnic make-up of visiting townies taking a stroll around the peaks and fells, dingles and dells.

There was a stark reminder in a comment from someone who said they were a refugee that one of the reasons will be that isolated rural areas in countries from which many have emigrated or escaped are unsafe, lawless places where you are liable to be killed, raped, kidnapped or, at the very least, mugged by bandits.

That school trips and information about the comparative safety (in those terms) of the UK countryside would do more to reassure and prove inviting than articles focussing disparagingly on how horribly "white" the countryside is.

It made me realise that while I might read that there is only one police officer covering some vast, remote rural area and think, "That means it is probably a very safe place" that someone with a personal or family history in a more lawless country outside the UK might think, "Wow! Must be teeming with bandits! Best avoid!"

Very good point, @Bosky .

Today we have the sex life of a male serial adulterer and his female partner. I wonder what his wife thinks?

Someone upthread described a neo-vagina as a cul de sac. The literal translation is arse of a bag. Perfect.

Sorry, wrong thread. This was aimed at the French gynaecologist thread.

Don't you hate it when that happens? 😁

I think it's more than just that kind of thing.

In any part of the world, unless it is a sort of tourist destination, you will almost certainly find far more ethnic diversity, and people who have come from other parts of the world, in cities. That includes people who have no reason to be afraid of going into the countryside. If you venture into the countryside in Japan, or Botswana, or Pakistan, how many of the people will be from some other place? Not many, generally speaking.

I always think of my friend who went to work in a tiny village in a southern part of Africa. It took two days to drive there, and many of the younger people had never met a white person. Which is fine, I think?

It's also very common for newer groups in a country, even after a few generations, if they originally came to cities, to stay in cities. Sure, some individuals may not, but a lot will. As do many of the people who are born in those same cities - some leave for the countryside, but most don't. - they are more likely to do to other cities and towns.

There are a lot of reasons for that, including concentration of services, jobs, and other people with a similar cultural background. And people have a tendency to stay where they arrive if they find work, and also many people prefer to stay close to family. Religious communities for some may be more difficult to access outside of larger towns and cities too, and that can really influence where people will move to.

But I think the underlying reason is the mass movement in many countries of people from rural areas into cities. Rural areas have lost many families over the years, and big cities have sucked them up, mainly due to economic changes. Why would we expect people who are more recent arrivals would be different and be moving into the countryside in large numbers?

Do we really want every place to look the same? The thing is, I've never heard anyone say that rural Botswana needs to become more racially diverse, or that the fact that it isn't shows they are racists. There's a real double standard.

Depends. The Amish go to the countryside to be separate and apart. Same for the Old Order russian orthodox. FLDS in the US pick out of the way places.
Cults often pick isolated places as well.

Luckily the Equality Act 2010 bans race and sex discrimination etc and the law is equal so that includes discrimination against all races and also includes sex not just gender discrimination. We need to fight to keep that fair law as it stands.

On the Guardian's issue at last people are realising some trans people went too far and that there are a range of views on this and many topics rather than the one right path of the true socialist way...

Just to finish my attack on the newspaper, the other day they had an article headlined ' Snack attack ;how the west exported unhealthy eating to Africa and Asia '. Apparently instead of eating traditional foods poor people are eating bread type snacks with empty calories. I thought it was a giant leap to suggest that 'the West' was deliberately doing anything. And the body of the text could not say who was encouraging this in 'the West'.

Yes, it would have been more accurate to take a line that the west has developed devilishly moreish high fat/sugar/salt snacks and, funnily enough, humans in other parts of the world also like high fat/sugar/salt snacks. Go figure! Can I ask where baklava sits on the east/west divide? That’s my Achilles heel.

Oh, I love baklava! I'm on the it's eastern side as it seems to be from the Ottoman Empire.

Sorry, derail but how are we pronouncing baklava, it's worse than scone and nearly as bad as gyre falcon imo. Back-lava, bah-klava or summat else?

I think it's bah-klava ! I could be wrong, it tastes good anyway!
To continue the derail , I use rose water for the syrup,yummy!

I think the very last thing I should do is learn to make baklava

I really, really want to though

I'm surprised the Guardian thought it might actually have a "debate" about the issue, when we all know how fascist the views of Trans Allies/activists are - "You WILL believe/speak/say as we do OR ELSE!".

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