Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Leaked recording exposes trans turmoil at The Guardian (Times, 12/09/23)

131 replies

BettyFilous · 12/09/2023 08:45

Interesting to see this article surface.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b16ddb8a-50df-11ee-a518-203f78f24415?shareToken=77b1ad072e9c62fff94095120488bc5d

The Guardian is embroiled in more turmoil over its stance on the trans debate, with an internal meeting setting staff at loggerheads.

Leaked recording exposes trans turmoil at The Guardian

The Guardian is embroiled in more turmoil over its stance on the trans debate, with an internal meeting setting staff at loggerheads. Journalists including Suza

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b16ddb8a-50df-11ee-a518-203f78f24415?shareToken=77b1ad072e9c62fff94095120488bc5d

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
maltravers · 12/09/2023 11:40

Chloe Cole, damn you autocorrect!

BigMaggieShoes · 12/09/2023 11:43

I've been saying for a while now, it's no longer "The Manchester Guardian" but "The San Fransisco Guardian".
It's firmly a US Liberal paper, not a UK left wing one.

maltravers · 12/09/2023 11:53

You’re right Maggie, it’s clear they take their instructions from the US and Australia. They should be ashamed.

MaybeDoctor · 12/09/2023 11:53

I’ve got a bit fed-up with the Australian focus too, especially in the lifestyle section. They don’t even flag that articles are written for Australian readers so you start reading something, lured in by an interesting title or image, then find yourself in a discussion of property zoning or Australian rental law that has absolutely no relevance to a UK reader.

Bornin1989 · 12/09/2023 11:58

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2023 11:37

Well I don’t know about you lot but I’m now completely convinced that there’s no way the US medical industry is going after a market with an estimated revenue of $5bn. I mean, what’s in it for them?

😁

RealityFan · 12/09/2023 12:01

GodessOfThunder · 12/09/2023 11:34

They are easily google able. The outpatient surgical procedure market alone is worth around 122 billion, so you can add a lot more to that figure.

You know this is a gateway drug to the whole revolution that is transhumanism.

If you can really convince society to accept medicalisation of teens, drugs and surgery, with all the attendant disasters of infertility, osteoporosis, and worse mental issues long term, then you have a nice little earner that can only grow exponentially, and lead to the bigger prize, transhumanism.

Mary Harrington is your woman for this.

$5bn today
$50bn in a decade.
The sky's the limit from there.

Medicine, will pay, find patient. Hundreds of thousands of new patients, thank you very much.

GodessOfThunder · 12/09/2023 12:06

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2023 11:37

Well I don’t know about you lot but I’m now completely convinced that there’s no way the US medical industry is going after a market with an estimated revenue of $5bn. I mean, what’s in it for them?

I’m just saying the argument you sometimes hear “big pharma are an important influence on pushing the trans agenda” isn’t really true. There are far more important influences.

maltravers · 12/09/2023 12:07

So cynical Reality! Anyone would think you’d been watching America’s opioid crisis unfurl.

GodessOfThunder · 12/09/2023 12:08

RealityFan · 12/09/2023 12:01

You know this is a gateway drug to the whole revolution that is transhumanism.

If you can really convince society to accept medicalisation of teens, drugs and surgery, with all the attendant disasters of infertility, osteoporosis, and worse mental issues long term, then you have a nice little earner that can only grow exponentially, and lead to the bigger prize, transhumanism.

Mary Harrington is your woman for this.

$5bn today
$50bn in a decade.
The sky's the limit from there.

Medicine, will pay, find patient. Hundreds of thousands of new patients, thank you very much.

I think you’re getting into conspiracy theory type thinking there

NotBadConsidering · 12/09/2023 12:09

The fundamental issue with the Guardian is now I trust little of what they publish on other subjects. They’re so willing to lie about puberty blockers, the suicide myth and so on, that I have to assume they’re willing to lie about everything. It’s a propaganda rag and they’re too sanctimonious to see it in themselves or too hypocritical, one or the other. It makes me laugh when I see Guardian readers lament the “Murdoch Press” for its bias and lies, as if their favoured home is anything different.

GodessOfThunder · 12/09/2023 12:09

maltravers · 12/09/2023 12:07

So cynical Reality! Anyone would think you’d been watching America’s opioid crisis unfurl.

It’s not a good comparison - vastly more people can potentially be given opioids than drugs related to gender reassignment

ArabeIIaScott · 12/09/2023 12:13

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2023 11:37

Well I don’t know about you lot but I’m now completely convinced that there’s no way the US medical industry is going after a market with an estimated revenue of $5bn. I mean, what’s in it for them?

Good point. Sidhbh Gallagher is probably making more off of her Twitter revenue. Or something.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11303919/Florida-sex-change-surgeon-dubs-Dr-Teetus-Deletus-REPORTED-consumer-watchdog.html

Florida sex-change surgeon 'Dr Teetus Deletus' REPORTED to watchdog

Dr Sidhbh Gallagher is accused of 'deceptively' nudging 'vulnerable' teens into sex change operations to her hundreds of thousands of followers on TikTok and other social media platforms.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11303919/Florida-sex-change-surgeon-dubs-Dr-Teetus-Deletus-REPORTED-consumer-watchdog.html

Brefugee · 12/09/2023 12:27

GodessOfThunder · 12/09/2023 09:59

One individuals opinion isn’t much. The fact of the matter is the “big pharma” link is over-cooked.

did you even look at Arabella's link?

Whatswhatwhichiswhich · 12/09/2023 12:31

That level of infighting shows clearly that they need a complete overhaul of management and staff. The fact any of them could invoke violence and protests at a staff meeting and weren’t immediately dismissed is detrimental to the functioning of the newsroom and the publics opinion on their publication.

GodessOfThunder · 12/09/2023 12:34

Brefugee · 12/09/2023 12:27

did you even look at Arabella's link?

Yes. It confirmed what I wrote above.

ArabeIIaScott · 12/09/2023 12:43

No, it didn't.

loislovesstewie · 12/09/2023 12:52

Today in the Grauniad is an article about being trans and Orthodox Jewish , in New York of all places! I rest my case.

maltravers · 12/09/2023 13:19

In terms of the opioid comparison - if you can introduce a long term or lifelong reliance, you will make lots of money. Immoral but good business and the US model seems to allow for this sort of free market abuse. The sort of lax free market consumer led prescribing that underlies the private clinics prescribing PBs and CSH etc in the UK. Hopefully the UK authorities will start to crack down on this.

duc748 · 12/09/2023 13:41

As for the Guardian bending towards the US market, I'd add that they also very much are aimed at the Australian (digital) market. This is why you find Aussie sport being covered more than British sport in some areas, for example. And we know how the tide of opinion is Down Under. Notice how the lead stories are about Aussie sport. Nobody (except a few expats) in the UK is interested in AFL (Aussie Rules football). Imagine if the main stories in the Guardian's football section were about Barcelona or Bayern Munich! Wouldn't happen, would it? It's another indicator is where their priorities are.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/rugbyleague

Rugby league | Sport | The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/rugbyleague

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/09/2023 13:46

The poor old Guardian - used to be a hive of investigative journalism - now more akin to a comic.
Never regret cancelling my subscription of many years.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 12/09/2023 13:48

extract

I write all this as a 47-year-old transgender man who transitioned five years ago. I’m also a parent to three teenagers. Though I admire the good intentions of parents who seek to support their children, I have serious concerns about reckless acquiescence to a child’s Internet-mediated self-diagnosis. Many older transgender folks share these concerns, too. In many cases, we are people who have been quietly going about our lives in society for years, anonymously sharing shops, offices, elevators, and sidewalks with everyone else, without making a big deal of our identity or proselytizing to others. We like it that way. But given the current climate, we now need to speak out.

[Continues]

During my own transition, I had seven surgeries. I also had a massive pulmonary embolism, a helicopter life-flight ride, an emergency ambulance ride, a stress-induced heart attack, sepsis, a 17-month recurring infection due to using the wrong skin during a (failed) phalloplasty, 16 rounds of antibiotics, three weeks of daily IV antibiotics, the loss of all my hair, (only partially successful) arm reconstructive surgery, permanent lung and heart damage, a cut bladder, insomnia-induced hallucinations—oh and frequent loss of consciousness due to pain from the hair on the inside of my urethra. All this led to a form of PTSD that made me a prisoner in my apartment for a year. Between me and my insurance company, medical expenses exceeded $900,000.

Read more: Here's What Medical Transition Looks Like

I understand that to some rich, well-educated people on this thread, such sums may be pocket change. I will venture to suggest that other people and companies are profitable because they don't dismiss the opportunity to expand a market by an extra billion here and there.

Forget What Gender Activists Tell You. Here’s What Medical Transition Looks Like

Sydney. London. Toronto.

https://quillette.com/2020/10/06/forget-what-gender-activists-tell-you-heres-what-medical-transition-looks-like

BlessedKali · 12/09/2023 13:53

Brainworm · 12/09/2023 09:40

'....... subsequently left many in the newsroom furious because it was held during the newspaper’s diversity, equity and inclusion week'

We should compile a list of 'thought terminating' (or attempted) thought terminating phrases that TRAs trot out. This one is of the 'and in Pride month' variety.

i hadn't thought of that, but you're quite right. I see a lot of 'AND in pride month/queer week/non binary day etc..' used as a means of shutting down debate.

It makes sense then that they are trying to cover as much of the yearly calender in TQ+ days... in which you are ESPECIALLY not allowed to point out the emperor has no clothes.

Brefugee · 12/09/2023 13:57

frequent loss of consciousness due to pain from the hair on the inside of my urethra

that whole extract is just desperately sad and depressing. Perhaps in the manner of those US states that forbid abortion unless you have an ultrasound, anyone going for FtM trangsender surgeries/treatment should read that article.

ArabeIIaScott · 12/09/2023 13:58

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

ArabeIIaScott · 12/09/2023 13:59

Oh, bugger. I was sharing an article from GoFundMe, with info on the costs of 'gender confirming' medical treatments.

It wasn't an actual fundraiser, perhaps MN will unhide it eventually.