Leaked recording exposes trans turmoil at The Guardian (Times, 12/09/23)

[BettyFilous]

Interesting to see this article surface.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b16ddb8a-50df-11ee-a518-203f78f24415?shareToken=77b1ad072e9c62fff94095120488bc5d

The Guardian is embroiled in more turmoil over its stance on the trans debate, with an internal meeting setting staff at loggerheads.

Relevant section:

'Gender confirmation surgery costs vary. Fees can range from £10,000 to £100,000, according to trans support network, TransUnite.
Female to male gender confirmation surgery is more expensive, often in the region of £60,000. Male to female gender confirmation surgery costs between £10,000 and £20,000.
For top surgery only, the cost generally falls between £5,000-£8,000, including aftercare.
Of course, there are also a number of hidden costs to gender confirmation surgery. The cost of an initial assessment usually falls between £200-£300 for an hour with a clinical specialist. Then there are travel costs, accommodation costs for loved ones staying near the hospital and various post-op expenses such as walking aids – as well as the cost of taking time off work to recover.'

Hair inside the urethra. I can’t even imagine. The very thought is making me feel faint.

What the hell happened to ‘first do no harm’?

Also the story of the adult female transitioner in Belgium who opted for euthanasia rather than live with the results of the operations.

Verhelst was 44 years old.
Belgian transsexual elects to die after botched sex change operation

that one made me honest to god well up. It's awful

I agree. The UK news and environment coverage is still ok-ish, if patchy and worse written than ever. But all the blokes spending a weekend sitting on hard stones to get in touch with their inner gastropod or whatever. It's looking at a very me-focused, well-heeled, young'n'groovy demographic of woke bros n gals imo - presumably so expensive shit can be advertised to them?. I guess US ad revenue is important so they don't lose money any faster..

But my God the US "reporters" have no clue how to write a basic factual news story (ie without a scolding woke value judgement built in to each sentence to remind you of the correct take) - and no-one is being paid to shout at them from the subs desk to take their pathetic copy and start again with some facts <wanders off muttering about how we wouldn't have got away with it on a proper news desk in the old days etc>

That is utterly tragic.

'Suicide rates among transsexuals and those who have undergone gender reassignment surgery are high with some suggesting the rate may be as high as 31 per cent.
Chris Hyde, professor at the University of Exeter, who has studied the issues surrounding sex change operations, told MailOnline: ‘Research we conducted a decade ago found there is huge uncertainty over whether changing someone's sex is a good or a bad thing.
‘While no doubt great care is taken to ensure that appropriate patients undergo gender reassignment, there's still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatised - often to the point of committing suicide.
‘While we haven’t looked at the situation since then, given the difficulties in researching this area, it is likely that the same issues remain today.’'

Here is the footage I mentioned earlier.

'Dr. Shayne Taylor explained how she convinced Nashville to get into the gender transition game. She emphasized that it's a "big money maker," especially because the surgeries require a lot of "follow ups"'

https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1572313523232931840

I found this as well.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315906925_Transgender_persons_applying_for_euthanasia_in_Belgium_A_case_report_and_implications_for_assessment_and_treatment

abstract

Gender confirming treatment has proven to relief gender dysphoria as a symptom and to improve psychological functioning in transgender persons. Nevertheless, a small percentage shows regret after their surgical treatment. Risk factors for regret are the presence of psychiatric problems, dissatisfaction with the results of surgery and poor socializing. In Belgium, euthanasia can be applied for in a situation of constant and unbearable mental or physical suffering. In recent years, three patients applied for euthanasia in the Gender clinic of the University Hospital Ghent, Belgium. We report on one case of a trans-woman applying for euthanasia and discuss on implications for assessment and treatment.

The case study goes on to discuss why the male transitioner wants to die, and it's all about the physical effects of the surgical procedures.

Yes, even in 2021 about a third of the Guardian readership was U.S Based:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/may/05/guardian-200-years-us-coverage-how-found-its-feet-america

Volume 18 • Issue 6 • 1000347

J Psychiatry

ISSN: 2378-5756 Psychiatry, an open access journal

Citation: Heylens G, Elaut E, Verschelden G, Cuypere GD (2015) Transgender Persons Applying for Euthanasia in Belgium: A Case Report and

Implications for Assessment and Treatment. J Psychiatry 18: 347 doi:10.4172/2378-5756.1000347

Page 2 of 2

She had been through her diagnostic phase at the end of the 60’s in another gender clinic and underwent mammoplasty and vaginoplasty in 1972. Afterwards, multiple surgical corrections were needed because the mammal prostheses were leaking and sexual intercourse was very diffcult and painful. In the end, 11 operations were performed without a significant improvement at the esthetical and functional level.

Currently, she suffers from constant vaginal pain and blood loss when voiding. During her life, she had several intimate relationships, none of which were satisfactory because of the above-mentioned problems. At the moment, she is single and works as a hypnotherapist. Her parents had died; she has one sister with whom she occasionally has contact and she feels lonely most of the time. Furthermore, she has several other physical complaints and was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome.

She never applied for psychological help and stopped hormonal replacement therapy over 15 years ago. Mental state exam by means of the Mini International Neuropsychiatric Interview Plus (5th version) shows no signs of vital depression, psychosis or body dysmorphic disorder. ere are no clinical arguments for severe impairment of cognitive functioning. Her demand for euthanasia is authentic and well considered. She was referred for second opinion towards a psychiatrist that is familiar with the evaluation of persons applying for euthanasia.

Her general practitioner agreed to act as 3th evaluator. Both physicians supported her wish for euthanasia. At the time of publication, euthanasia was not yet carried out. Patient was still convinced to continue with the procedure, but had to make several arrangements (e.g. financial).

https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-us-press-office/2020/apr/09/guardian-us-records-highest-ever-traffic-in-march-reaching-more-than-114-million-browsers

You look at American politics and it seems to me the facts don’t matter overly much to the voters there, it’s all about picking a side and your “team”, then closing your eyes and ears to the facts you don’t want to hear. The Guardian seems to be following this route - facts can be avoided, not reported on, moulded or misrepresented in the name of supporting your side because you’re in the right and they’re in the wrong.

And the increase in traffic - I suppose like LOJ they are the shock jocks of the left now. Give the people what they want eh?

I disagree where is your evidence? It is clearly one of the many strands that we have all struggled to figure out over the years. American healthcare has form for scams putting profit over the patients' best interests particularly if medicare is funding treatments e.g. dental braces for tiny children in Texas.
If ethics is out of the window for profit reasons, it is likely to be a massive influence. Follow the money basically...

😁

5

You know this is a gateway drug to the whole revolution that is transhumanism.

If you can really convince society to accept medicalisation of teens, drugs and surgery, with all the attendant disasters of infertility, osteoporosis, and worse mental issues long term, then you have a nice little earner that can only grow exponentially, and lead to the bigger prize, transhumanism.

This. Look at Martine Rothblatt and MR's research interests.

I am glad to see that people are starting to make a point of how trans ideology isn't inclusive. It's actively exclusionary.

The momentum on this is likely to only increase at this point.

I imagine the rapid growth of pain clinics thanks to the Sacklers looked similar to this.

I'm not buying for a second that there isn't a huge profit incentive in all this.

Yup, all those new clinics that have popped up. Totally altruistic. No profit motive whatsoever. Nope. Definitely not. No sir-ee.

That level of growth is terrifying. At least the NHS being so 'waiting list' driven acts as a delaying mechanism to some extent in the UK. The longer kids can be kept away from 'gender affirming' clinicians the better.
The NHS is in my experience currently a 'fire fighting' system and basically not fit for purpose where timely care is concerned. Those who can afford it, like me, will not wait in pain forever for (basic) tests/treatment and simply go private instead.
It is almost as if the NHS wants this to happen and for a 2 tier system to gradually and painfully bring about the overdue reform that none of the political parties is willing to confront honestly.

If we want a decent service, we have to be prepared to pay slightly more than now. You can still have state cover for children and those who earn insufficient.

The law suits are going to be horrendous from all those clinics in the USA in due course.
I've never liked the USA Republicans at all but I applaud the way some of them are trying to protect kids from the 'gender identity ideology' brigade in the States they control.

Im tired with us being told to respect words which are never properly defined, such as the trio "diversity, inclusion, and equity."

What do they mean? 'Inclusion' seems to have very limited application in some fields such as including disabled people, and nobody points out that indiscriminate inclusion would be terrible for equity, for instance, and possibly even for diversity, if one vast demographic group self-includes in some group intended for a small minority, and when this is allowed because it is seen as 'inclusive'.

Then not everyone should be included, especially if equity is a goal, too. Able-bodied people should not be included in Paralympics, young adults should not be included in children's sports, men should not be included in women's sports etc.

And inclusion can be used to disguise the colonisation of a group (women) and the redefinition of what that group means. This excludes those previously members of the group if they don't agree with the new definition.

'Diversity' can be a weaselword, when the true goal should be statistically representative participation, i.e., having people roughly in proportion to their numbers in the relevant population from each demographic group.

As things stand, 'diverse' can be achieved by corporations by adding one person from a minority racial or ethnic group and one woman, perhaps also from such a group, to some board which is otherwise all white men. No people with disabilities need to be added as that might cost real money.

In reverse, I often see 'diversity' used to reduce the representation of women in our actual population proportions so that a group consisting of men from all racial and ethnic groups is deemed 'diverse' if it also includes one or two women, even if the percentage of women that creates is nowhere near fifty percent, say. And when trans women count as women, we can get boards where everyone is male but the board still looks gender- 'diverse'.

And given the above two problems, 'equity' also becomes meaningless, as achieving equity is likely to demand the drawing of boundaries which means excluding those who should not be included in some group.

It's a total mess, but the terms are used like a flag one is supposed to fly without any questioning.

Well, it seems 'DEI' is a whole bloody industry now, doesn't it? Plenty of fat salaried jobs there. And as you say, not actually doing what it says on the tin at all.

Things always get taken too far by those who benefit from 'empire building' in the organisations they manage. I remember when Human Resources was called Personnel. Over my lifetime (in say financial services) I witnessed Human Resources losing some of their power; and recruitment no longer being fully in their gift but rather transferring directly to line managers with existing staff applying for roles they fancied. This meant that staff were no longer told by HR to report to X Office on Monday but instead were chosen directly by their line manager.
It has taken about 2 decades but they made sure they kept their jobs by inventing Diversity, Equality and Inclusion.
I dread to think how unnecessary this move was and what a waste of precious money it has been.
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas and so it will be very difficult to roll back.
The Equality Act 2010 was bringing together existing legislation in many areas (sex, race etc) and I would argue that the principles of 'Equality' were already well understood. There has been overkill since and preference to the ill-defined T to the exclusion of all else.

I don't like the word diversity. Derived from the same root as divided. It splits us up and makes us different. We need to be celebrating our unity.

Etymology of 'diversity' -

diversity (n.)mid-14c., diversite, "variety, diverseness;" late 14c., "quality of being diverse, fact of difference between two or more things or kinds; variety; separateness; that in which two or more things differ," mostly in a neutral sense, from Old French diversete "difference, diversity, unique feature, oddness:" also "wickedness, perversity" (12c., Modern French diversité), from Latin diversitatem (nominative diversitas) "contrariety, contradiction, disagreement;" also, as a secondary sense, "difference, diversity," from diversus "turned different ways" (in Late Latin "various"), past participle of divertere (see divert).

Alot of negative words there.

it seems weird that businesses want to encourage this. Like the complete opposite of Team Building.

also makes me wonder if it is a targeted attack on the west - divide & conquer.