Feminists want trans women to show passports at public lavatories, claims Labour MP Angela Eagle

[IwantToRetire]

Dame Angela Eagle, who is standing to be a Commons committee chairman, said lavatories were being “policed” at the expense of those who don’t conform to gender norms.

The MP for Wallasey said the heated debate about <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Y3zfs/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/06/12/labour-mp-challenge-keir-starmer-single-sex-spaces/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">trans people using single-sex spaces revolved around “recreating and then enforcing” gender stereotypes.
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peaking at a fringe event at the Trades Union Congress conference in Liverpool, she criticised <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Y3zfs/www.telegraph.co.uk/kemi-badenoch/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kemi Badenoch, the equalities minister, for seeking to change the wording of the Equality Act to specify that it protects “<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Y3zfs/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/gender-neutral-lavatories-are-an-invasion-of-womens-privacy/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">biological sex”.

This would make it clear that trans women have to use the men’s lavatories, while trans men have to use the ladies’, Dame Angela said.

‘Policed at public facilities’She added: “Whilst that may affect a small number of people, the actual effect is that loads of non-gender-conforming women will effectively be being policed in their use of public facilities.

“We’ve never had to show a passport to get into the toilet before. I dread to think what else they might want us to show if they change the law.”

Dame Angela warned that people would be “challenged using the toilets” for merely deviating from gender norms, citing a “butch-looking woman” as someone at risk.

“This is all about recreating and then enforcing appearance, behaviour, making certain that you actually behave and look the way your sex, your gender ought to look,” she said.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/11/feminists-want-trans-women-to-show-passport-to-use-lavatory/

She was speaking at a fringe event at the Trades Union Congress conference. Article behind paywall but available to read at https://archive.ph/ just paste in the Telegraph link.

Well, as Ask Sarkar says, how can we tell a good dog owner from a bad dog owner?

The Telegraph subscribers have done us proud on the comments once again.

Its fascinating how Labour have done a bait and switch here. After months of relentless pressure on What Is A Woman, and falling short, they're now spinning it around to put the "shame" on women for objecting to TW using their toilets, and other spaces I'm sure.

In the past of course, there would have been toilet attendants at public loos, in department store and club toilets etc. But most importantly, men were expected to, and mainly did, self police.

Both of those are long gone as concepts.

No probs for Angela, she maintains her place in the higher caste that is policed itself by adherence to TRA mantras, and so speaks out to humiliate working class women for demanding their toilets stay their own.

Haha!! Absolutely no-one in the comments buying this bullshit.

Isn't the whole idealogy of being trans about " recreating and then enforcing appearance, behaviour, making certain that you actually behave and look the way your sex, your gender ought to look,”

The idea is asking men to self-police is so outside of her realm of understanding that she can't even see that it's what we're asking.

Men who respect womens dignity this much are not who want to share toilets with in good faith.

It has fuck all to do with passports.

It's to do with respect for women.

Dame Angela said the freedom of speech argument on trans rights seemed plausible “until you start analysing it”, adding: “To what extent does freedom of speech ever allow people to question the existence of other human beings?”

Here we go again...so who is denying the existence of trans people?

I'm replacing 'existence' with 'hegemony' in my head because that's what's going on.

There'd be no questions and no checks if transwomen headed into the men's. No self combustion. They'd still be living and breathing. And they'd still be wearing the dress, wig and lippy.
And we would all still know they were transwomen.

Although every one of her comments demonstrates her utter lack of comprehension, knowledge and sense - there wouldn’t be any point flashing a passport to obtain entry to a female single sex space (if IW can gloat about a F on documents, all obviously male peoples can)…

What is actually stopping men who say they are transwomen going into male lavatories, anyway?

I think I'd like a very specific answer to that one from Eagle. And not headlines and bullet points - I mean the detail. With evidence.

The woman is a genuine moron.

1. I haven’t seen this asked for by a single woman- evidence please Angela, or it didn’t happen

2. one obvious reason for point 1), being that men can already very easily self ID as women on their passports, as has been discussed on here going back for years. Passports in the UK don’t say anything reliable about biological sex.

So if some men were going to try to force women to accept them ‘as women’ based on some kind of document evidence of their biological sex status (let’s say the men are trying to gain entry to a women only space) I should think those men would be quite delighted to offer their self id’d passports.

However, as women know, passports don’t tell us anything about sex. Even if a man is flourishing his legal sex change certificate, the GRC saying that he’s legally a woman now, that doesn’t automatically allow him entry to every female-only space either.

Angela isn’t sounding very up to date on what she is railing against. Maybe she needs a quick meeting with Sex Matters.

Exactly right Slothtoes. With her suggestion that we think passports are a reliable indicator of someone’s sex, she is demonstrating both her absolute ignorance on this topic in general, and also that she has not remotely been listening to the arguments women are making, despite those arguments having been made in parliament by women brave enough to try to get the message through.

I am so tired of the way language is being turned into meaningless noise which makes having proper respectful dialogue impossible.

For instance, 'existence' now has little to do with actually existing but a lot to do with forcing others to accept every demand by one minority, even if those demands include the linguistic erasure of the existence of female people.

Nobody is stating that transgender people don't exist as they clearly do. The question is how to balance rights and demands for rights in a democratic society and how conflicting cases are to be solved and what rights declaring a trans identity should convey to a person and where those rights come from (in, say, sport debates).

The catastrophising language is equally tiresome in contexts where it does not belong. Gender critical beliefs are not causing genocides, for instance, disagreeing with someone is not persecuting that person and so on. Presenting inaccurate information is equally unhelpful, and that is far too rife in this context.

The obvious risk with all this is increased polarisation which will ultimately hurt transgender people more than other groups.

I’ve also never heard anyone gc say transmen must use the women’s toilets (though plenty say they don’t mind if they do). The situation is not symmetrical and the usual gc position is that if men object, it’s up to them to speak up.

If you vote for Labour this is what you will get. What vile people. Trans ‘women’ are men and should not be in female toilets.

Eagle in name, bird brain in nature.

embarrassing

“ ‘No freedom to offend’Jo Grady, the union boss who was also on the panel at the fringe event, claimed people have freedom of speech, but not ‘freedom to offend’. “

Jo Grady is wrong. She fails to understand the law. (Or she does understand it, but chooses to misrepresent it.)

People do have freedom to offend. What people don’t have is freedom to harass.

See, this whole toilets issue might need a lot of unpicking when this is all over, whichever way it resolves itself. Of course it's important because so many women have to use public loos - usually remote, dingy places that are not as safe as they used to be......

But putting that aside, yes, you do in deed need to show a passport and other ID to get a job - as a nurse or police officer or security guard, or bra fitter or any other job that might require you to intimately touch another person.

If you commit a crime, or need to go into hospital, people will need to know who you are and can make judgement accordingly on how best to proceed.

Therapists in rape crisis centres, for instance, or doulas, or 'period advisors' ...... In many many situations where sex matters you do need to have some form of ID and be able to prove who you are, don't you?

“This is not about freedom of speech. It’s about putting people back in boxes, getting them out of public life, making them frightened to be themselves in public, making it practically impossible to be themselves in public.”

Says the female MP campaigning to remove female humans’ right to the privacy and dignity of single-sex female-only facilities when in a state of undress.

Well that's OK, Starmer is, or was, a decent lawyer. He will be able to confirm that this is wrong, and not an official Labour position.
Any time now.

“She added: “Whilst that may affect a small number of people, the actual effect is that loads of non-gender-conforming women will effectively be being policed in their use of public facilities.”

What’s “gender-non-conforming” for women in her view?

Wearing jeans, trainers, a fleece, and carrying a backpack?

Short hair?

Make-up free face?

Wearing a shirt, a tie and a blazer, other than as part of school uniform requirements?

You’d really hope for better critical thinking skills from someone whose job it is to vote on legislation.

Jo Grady isn’t an MP. She’s the General Secretary of UCU.

UCU is the union which failed to support Kathleen Stock when she was being harassed by trans activists.