Worrying Increase in Transphobia

[PorcelinaV]

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/09/09/transphobia-uk-press-media-negative-coverage/

An increase in transphobic sentiment among the British public has been fuelled by hostile coverage of trans people from the right-wing press, argues data journalist Ell Folan....

Unfortunately, newspapers still have a great deal of influence on the public and political agenda in Britain, and nowhere is this more obvious than in how perceptions of trans rights have changed.

As recently as Feburary 2021, an absolute majority of British voters (51 per cent) agreed with the statement “a transgender woman is a woman”, including 6 in 10 women. Just 34 per cent disagreed. But after years of negative coverage from the press, those numbers have changed.

In April this year, only 33 per cent of voters agreed that trans women are women, with 47 per cent disagreeing....

It is clear that the media plays an important role in shaping public perceptions, and unless their negative coverage is corrected and refuted, public opinion will continue to worsen.

Language is all about power

I don’t accept cis as it forces a framework on me I don’t accept

@Talltall

Can you explain what difference you think a proper diagnosis makes, to safeguarding or anything else?

But the ENTIRE current movement isn't doing this.

The movement is being led by ideology - and that's going right through medicine.

No one feels they can stand up to it and many medics are actively endorsing it - often for their own financial or ideological reasons.

It is harming people.

If we are 'bigots' for saying anything negative we remove protections.

This includes pointing out that sex offenders have a higher rate of transition than general population.

How do you say well that's a legitimate health issue and that's one that's not on that basis?

You have to define in law what a women is to protect them. Wishy washy half in half out definitions remove protections.

It's just not good enough to say it's a feeling. You need to have nuance and this approach does not allow for it.

also please refer the the original post which was about discrimination.

The original post isn't about discrimination, it's about Pink News frothing for clicks that the public don't see males as women.

I put my hand up! I SUPPORT (some) DISCRIMINATION!

I SUPPORT the discrimination that is used for the basis of safeguarding!

I SUPPORT the discrimination that allows female people who are not on performance enhancing drugs to play sport with only other female people!

I SUPPORT the discrimination that allows female single sex spaces! And male single sex spaces too!

I SUPPORT the discrimination that allows people of one sexual orientation to hold events that limit the attendance to people with that sexual orientation!

I SUPPORT the discrimination that elevates an exceptional female person to receive recognition for their efforts at a time when we still need to do this due to a millennia of negative sexist discrimination!

I SUPPORT the discrimination that doesn’t allow an adult to attend a primary school as a pupil!

I SUPPORT all sorts of discrimination that allows people to live in safety, fairness and equity.

Now, I can go through just as happily and describe the negative discrimination that I fight against and disagree with. Shall I do that?

Or am I just a bigot for supporting discrimination?

Language.. it really is powerful!

Wow, The Right Side of History have been doing amazing work overnight! 🙌Thank you all, you are a shining beacon of blazing sunlight ☀️

Dear undecided lurkers, please read (with great attention) the illuminating posts of TRSOH. And draw your own conclusions!

@RedToothBrush @MargotBamborough

the true sign of a bully is one that continues when been asked to leave some one alone.

you have defined yourselves

you continue to through up issues versus solution
you continue to harass

i am glad I don't know people like ones with attitude to debate like you.

you are angry bullies
please stop messaging me via posts or other ways.
I have made my points clearly
its a shame you can't see merits but I am not your mother and it's not my role to educate you on the way forward

Transwomen are men. How do you differentiate between someone with a proper diagnosis and treatment and a 'bloke in a dress' who is doing it for a laugh or worse to harm women?

How do we allow the 'safe' Transwomen into single sex spaces and keep out the ones intending harm? How do we ensure women are safe if any male bodied people are allowed access? And thats before you even get to comfort and dignity.

All men need to stay out of women's single sex spaces and sports etc.

please stop messaging me via posts or other ways.

are people sending you private messages? report them.

Firstly, how do you diagnose transness? Secondly, the idea that it can be diagnosed has been rejected by trans ideology, they don't want it and thirdly, even if you can diagnose transness, how does that help me know if the male in my changing room is going to harm me or not?

You say you don't support discrimination, but you do. You support discrimination against all the women who can't or don't want to be in vulnerable spaces with males. You support discrimination, just against women not against men with special feelings.

And please tell me how a person is 'diagnosed' with gender dysphoria? It's based on feelings, on whether what a person feels corresponds with biology. I feel that I am18 , but I'm not, I feel that I am a young blonde, attractive female with curves in all the right places and then I look in the mirror! Basing a diagnosis on a feeling is what has got us to this situation. There is no test that can be applied to prove that a person is 'in the wrong body' wrong gender etc. This is nothing like diagnosing measles or bi-polar disorder. There is no clinical evidence that can be used.
As I said ,much earlier, people can wear what they like, call themselves Jane instead of John, but they don't change sex and should understand that a man never becomes female.

I think that somebody on TRSOH doesn't understand how discussion forums work

Being able to differentiate and discriminate is not inherently negative. Discrimination is an important and useful tool in being able to tell the difference between one thing and another. We often need to be to evaluate situations and then make relevent judgments/decisions/choices on the basis of this evaluation

It is now on trend to think that there should be no boundaries, everything is supposed to be open and free moving - but without boundaries there can be no equality, and no individual distinctions either. Judgment is not inherently evil, either.

Safeguarding necessitates boundaries. What trans ideology seeks is to transgress these boundaries in the name of free personal expression - and to hell with anyone whose boundaries have been trampled. All healthy organisms have boundaries and defences. They exist to preserve the life and health of whichever organism they belong to

Yet more Darvo

Women have asked to be left alone. They have been harassed and abuse and told they must accept men into single sex spaces. And when they don't they are threatened with losing their jobs, criminalisation and social isolation by shunning.

Let me spell this out again. The law has to be clear and has to define clearly what a woman is in sex based terms otherwise it leaves women vulnerable to harm because it removes legal protections.

And interestingly it's ONLY the legal definition of women that being tampered with. Not men.

So it removes protections from females. This CAN only benefit males.

Why is that?

Women ARE NOT bullying anyone. Framing women trying to protect the rights they had in law as bullying is a special kind of abuse.

It's one that has a name. It's called gaslighting.

Are people PMing you about this? Or are they just quoting you? If you don’t want to be notified of posts that have quoted you you can turn off this feature in your settings.

You really can’t tell people not to quote posts that you have made in a public forum.

I think the problem we have here is that you know some lovely transwomen, who have a GRC. I follow a couple of people like this on Twitter. They seem nuanced and sensible and do not use women’s sex-segregated facilities.

The trouble is, there are fully intact males who call themselves transwomen without any diagnosis, and men who dress in women’s clothing to get access to women’s sex-segregated spaces, and it’s impossible to tell which are which. This has a negative effect on many women. Excluding all people with male bodies is just good safeguarding.

It appears to many posters on here that you care more about the lovely transwomen than the women who are losing their sex-segregated spaces.

And if the lovely transwomen care more about themselves than the women who are losing sex-segregated spaces, then they may not be so lovely after all.

Yet more Darvo

It's all they have.

I agree!

Report anyone who is messaging with bullying messages via PM. That is strictly not on.

Or, is this poster confusing people referring to their posts as 'messaging'?? Frankly, there is something very disconnected happening on this thread and it is concerning. A poster who feels free to make unfounded accusations about people who are asking them to explain their posts.

Women should be able to say no.

We are not consenting.

We do not consent. We are saying we do not consent.

Example: We do not consent to naked males in female changing rooms.

This is not difficult to understand.

This shouldn't be controversial

You can not consent on behalf of other people either.

Trans people only exist if you believe in trans ideology. If you don't believe that people are literally born in the wrong bodies then what you recognise is that some people feel better about themselves ( for whatever reason - and there are many. different motives behind transition) if they present as the opposite sex. For some this helps to resolve dysphoric feelings.

Dysphoria is a mental health condition. The clue is in the prefix DYS; it not an indication of " inherent transness".

What has happened in the last decade or so is that many young people have been exposed to this set of post modernistic ideas about the self and society - and have now started to use it as a framing device for their evolving sense of self, or for their personal struggles with life. Mental health issues have escalted in recent times - with ever more people reporting anxiety and depression. this is frequnetly reported in the media.

Also, many older men who have been cross dressing in secret have become emboldened to " come out of the closet" and go fully public. It is now fairly common to see cross drerssing men out and about in town or on the streets/at events and so on.

Cis only has meaning if you believe in or accept transness as inherent - rather than as a coping/framing device. Only people who buy into the concept use 'cis'. Nobody else uses to it describe or refer to themselves.

I have now gone back to see what was the foundation of my 'bullying' behaviour.

I have made not one accusation. I have not called the poster 'hateful' and 'horrid' and a 'bully' or anything. I have merely asked questions and posed alternative view points that are based in reality and not in some far fetched notion that formulates blanket statements such as diagnosed trans people are 'gentle souls' and by that poster's reckoning should not be subject the discrimination that is needed for safeguarding.

I would like to echo that the accusations of 'bullying' and 'harassment' are DARVO and are abusive. Whether you intend for this to be the case or not. Whether you believe this or not makes no difference at all.

So, talltall please stop making such false accusations and being abusive.

If you don't want people to comment on your posts, then work with MNHQ to have them removed or to develop a secret post function where you limit who interacts with your posts. Because as it stands now, your claims of 'attacks', are questions about your posts, and your accusations of abuse go against the established talk guidelines.

I do not believe a man who says he’s a woman can be a lesbian. Do you? Does that make me transphobic of mumsnet?

Nobody is bullying you. We are asking questions.

I asked you what difference you think a proper diagnosis makes to safeguarding or anything else because I am racking my brains and I honestly can't think of anything.

Unless you think there is a way of allowing male people who have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to use women's spaces but not allowing any other male people to use them.

I mean, apart from the fact that that wouldn't actually resolve the problem from women's point of view because they would still have to share their spaces with members of the opposite sex.

Let's pretend for a second that all women are fine with sharing women's spaces with male people who have been officially diagnosed with gender dysphoria but not any other males.

How does this work in reality?

How do you let one in and keep the other out?

Can you talk us through the process?

Or is it your position that we cannot exclude male people who have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from women's spaces even if that means that in practice we cannot exclude any other males who want to access them either? In which case I don't see how you can claim to be in favour of safeguarding.

Help me out here. What am I not seeing?