Worrying Increase in Transphobia

[PorcelinaV]

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/09/09/transphobia-uk-press-media-negative-coverage/

An increase in transphobic sentiment among the British public has been fuelled by hostile coverage of trans people from the right-wing press, argues data journalist Ell Folan....

Unfortunately, newspapers still have a great deal of influence on the public and political agenda in Britain, and nowhere is this more obvious than in how perceptions of trans rights have changed.

As recently as Feburary 2021, an absolute majority of British voters (51 per cent) agreed with the statement “a transgender woman is a woman”, including 6 in 10 women. Just 34 per cent disagreed. But after years of negative coverage from the press, those numbers have changed.

In April this year, only 33 per cent of voters agreed that trans women are women, with 47 per cent disagreeing....

It is clear that the media plays an important role in shaping public perceptions, and unless their negative coverage is corrected and refuted, public opinion will continue to worsen.

OK. Let's make it simpler.

The trans woman you and your mum saw - who was male - uses women's toilets.

Your mum - who is female - doesn't want male people to use women's toilets.

Why is what the trans woman wants more important than what your mum wants?

Can you clarify your reply please?

Are you happy or not happy for the following suggested by the chokka?

-“you’re happy to condemn those who try to get women with those different opinions sacked? Who scream, send rape and death threats, who threaten parents who have those different opinions with the loss of custody of their children?”

-“You’re happy to accommodate the different opinions of the women in prison who don’t want to be assaulted by penis-owning sex offenders who’ve been moved to women’s prison by saying the magic words?”

-“You’re happy to accommodate lesbians wanting a lesbian-only event?”

Please clarify if you are not happy about the above ?

@Billi80 - your mum is unhappy and uncomfortable with a male-bodied person in a changing room with her. Do you believe her feelings are unimportant and should be disregarded?

so you’re happy to condemn those who try to get women with those different opinions sacked?
straw manning

so you’re happy to condemn those who scream, send rape and death threats,
straw manning

so you’re happy to condemn those who threaten parents who have those different opinions with the loss of custody of their children
straw manning

You’re happy to accommodate the different opinions of the women in prison who don’t want to be assaulted by penis-owning sex offenders who’ve been moved to women’s prison by saying the magic words?
straw manning

You’re happy to accommodate lesbians wanting a lesbian-only event?
straw manning.

Let them speak

I am wondering if billi misread what chokka wrote. Because it is remarkable to admit that they are not happy with these things and then declare them ‘strawman’.

I am wondering if they were too quick to revert to denigrating women that they just didn’t read what they replied to. Maybe though, they are being very clear and very honest.

That is refreshing if they are being so honest and explicit. That is great if that is the case.

Maybe it is me reading the post incorrectly. In which case, I apologise. My head is very fuzzy at the moment. In which case, i apologise wholeheartedly…

Its interesting that Ell was using the same data a month earlier to balm "Cis men"

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/08/15/uk-trans-men-women-data/

Although the OP might have had more traction with the responses iof they had posted that.

It does seem to me that the bad press is anybody else's fault but trans.

Constantly. That’s how I learned about nuance.

I get your point and agree to an extent but I don’t think you got mine. I also have never stated what my politics are so I don’t know why you think I’m radical left wing or even support trans ideology. Anyway, my point was that people like my mother are transphobic because of the right wing press not because of gender critical feminism. My mother abhors feminism.

I think you underestimate your mum. I think she would be quite likely to think that a man shouldn't use the women's room regardless of what the press says. What I don't understand is why you think they should.

I think we get the idea that any feelings but the feelings of trans people are strawman arguments because ...

...well that's what that poster believes.

But why does what one person belief bet what anyone else believes? This is the point the whole idea of transwomen being women is nothing but a belief. No one should be compelled to forceably share that belief. Because we live in a liberal free society.

And that doesn't stop sex from still existing and not being the same thing as gender.

And that doesn't stop medical transition of children having major concerns and potential harms. We know the complication rates are astronomical and we don't have any compelling evidence that medical transition improves life.

Nor does this stop the fact that male and female bodies behave differently with certain medical conditions and that treatment for males isn't always appropriate for females and vice versa.

The failure to talk about these issues hurts the very people that are supposed to be protected by the cry of 'transphobia' or 'strawman'.

Let's make this clear, the use of the word strawman is purely a substitute for the word transphobia in this context. And it's equally bullshit.

And that before we even mention about reproduction and how no matter how you cut it, transwomen can't have a baby with a man. Cos sex isn't gender.

The 'magic bullet' ideology can not deliver on the promise of living happily ever after.

Cos reality.

Reality is not a strawman argument nor is it transphobia. These are words thrown about to prop up ideology and denial of reality.

you are being hugely patronising to your mum. Bloody hell.

Your mum is right wing. That's fine we all have our own opinions on politics. Your mum doesn't want men in women's toilets. That is pretty much a default position with most people if you ask them that simple question. (ask it: do you think it is ok for men to use women's toilets?)

don't faff about using the word transwoman - because you and your poor deluded right wing unable to think for herself mum both knew that was a man you saw.

It is HUGELY patronising of you to think that your mum, who has lived her own life, to assume that she can't form basic opinions like "men don't belong in women's toilets" without the Torygraph or the mail having told her to think that.

I'm going to say about you: you only think that men should be allowed to be in women's toilets because you are brainwashed into thinking that by the Grauniad and Pink News.

Well the other option is that someone ("someone who works closely with politicians in this country") thinks that all policy and laws come from a shadowy cabal of unelected right or left wingers

['& I did restrain myself from pressing send on a tescos waitrose link the price up tinfoil in last night]

Are you sure that its not because the argument itself identifies as a straw man?
After all isn't that how it works?

😀

Of course its a bloody DARVO argument.

Because there isn't any other logical argument that can be used in response to the points that are being made by concerned women.

It is as simple as sex is not gender. Women are discriminated against on the basis of sex not gender in most cases. Likewise women are harmed on the basis of sex not gender. And conflating gender with sex removes the protects that women have fought harm for, to mitigate the vulnerability they have due to sex.

@Brefugee 👏👏👏

When people have enough insight to know that the left wing political parties' slide into misogyny is a gift to the far right, but not enough insight to realise that both the quickest (& most pragmatic, logical and morally right) way to end that would be to reverse the left's slide into misogyny.

Reminds me of the coercion from little OJ and friends: "Vote Labour or your abortion rights are under threat."

I suggest to gender believers who think they are left-wing that you work with us to try and reverse the misogyny, if you're truly worried about the far right. Rather than, you know, acknowledging our vulnerability and then using it as a coercive threat.

So, are all UK women who disagree that males with penises should be allowed to access female toilets transphobic? And presumably influenced by right wing media?

You seem out of touch with the majority of the population who are either opposed to this or as yet undecided .

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/74l25pslh3/Internal_TransgenderIssues_220720_final_extraXbreak_FINAL.pdf

Page 17 is the relevant section. It deals clearly with penis having male people.

Do you have some kind of special skill that can tell which male person entering a female single sex space is ‘good’ and who is ‘bad’? Does it come with not reading certain media? ie . Do you lose that ability if you read centrist or conservative or capitalist media?

As recently as Feburary 2021, an absolute majority of British voters (51 per cent) agreed with the statement “a transgender woman is a woman”, including 6 in 10 women. Just 34 per cent disagreed.

In April this year, only 33 per cent of voters agreed that trans women are women, with 47 per cent disagreeing....

This is wonderful news! People have finally engaged their brains!

It is not phobic to not want men in the women's toilets. It is a matter of the dignity and privacy of one's sex as much as anyting. That is why we have them in the first place.

Once you get past about 30 years old you sart to stop blaming your parents for everything, and seeing them as inherently backwards/evil/bigoted and so on. you realise that generations that came before you also have a learned wisdom, and have also seen and questioned things too.

I can imagine you berate your mother for all sorts of stuff.

Anyone who sees a man go in to the Ladies' toilet and then berates her mother for objecting has lost the plot.

Can you give a concrete example of how your mother is transphobic? Because not wanting to share toilets and changing rooms with the opposite sex isn't transphobic at all.

By the way, many women who "abhor feminism" do so because they think feminism is elitist, not particularly relevant to their lives, and does nothing for them. And these days, they're not exactly wrong. Particularly in the US, where women are having their reproductive rights taken away and they STILL don't have paid maternity leave, and trans people really ought to be very far down the list of priorities for anyone who calls themselves a feminist.

Frankly, the idea that any woman (whether she identifies as a feminist or not) could only have come to the conclusion that female people should be allowed to have a word for themselves, some spaces for themselves and their own sporting categories, because she has been brainwashed by the right wing press and right wing politicians is absolutely staggering in its stupidity. Anyone making this argument has zero right to call themselves a feminist.

And is sexist and lacks any understanding of cultural sensitivities.

And is homophobic to boot.

I'm going to say about you: you only think that men should be allowed to be in women's toilets because you are brainwashed into thinking that by the Grauniad and Pink News.

It would be interesting to see if there is any research on whether left-wingers or right-wingers are more susceptible to conformity and tribal thinking.

I mean there is no doubt that we have an issue with a large amount of the left going along with the idea that TWAW, so I'm not sure they should be posturing as the smart, critical, independent thinking type.

A lot of the accusations of "right wing media is spreading hate", I'm going to suspect that conservatives just have a different moral palate, and that the media is just appealing to the moral values of its customers. It's likely question-begging from a biased partisan viewpoint to throw the accusation of "hate".

And trans people keep telling us that sex is not gender, which is why you can be a woman with a penis.

What they can't explain is why they can't be womangender whilst using toilets and competing in sporting categories for people of the male sex. Women with penises can use urinals in exactly the same way as men with penises.