Worrying Increase in Transphobia

[PorcelinaV]

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/09/09/transphobia-uk-press-media-negative-coverage/

An increase in transphobic sentiment among the British public has been fuelled by hostile coverage of trans people from the right-wing press, argues data journalist Ell Folan....

Unfortunately, newspapers still have a great deal of influence on the public and political agenda in Britain, and nowhere is this more obvious than in how perceptions of trans rights have changed.

As recently as Feburary 2021, an absolute majority of British voters (51 per cent) agreed with the statement “a transgender woman is a woman”, including 6 in 10 women. Just 34 per cent disagreed. But after years of negative coverage from the press, those numbers have changed.

In April this year, only 33 per cent of voters agreed that trans women are women, with 47 per cent disagreeing....

It is clear that the media plays an important role in shaping public perceptions, and unless their negative coverage is corrected and refuted, public opinion will continue to worsen.

We already have self identification. Not on the statute books, but in reality male born trans people believe they have the right to use women's spaces, and because we are not supposed to challenge male born trans people, or male born people who may be trans, we have lost the ability to challenge any male people.

How on earth are we supposed to tell the difference between "real trans people" and dangerous men taking advantage of this situation? And even if we could tell the difference which we can't, how the hell do you legislate for that difference?

We don't have toilets for women and non-dangerous men, and separate toilets for dangerous men. We don't know which men are dangerous, we just know that statistically, as a group, they pose a risk to women and girls, so we keep them all out of our spaces without exception. Why should male born trans people be the exception?

you don't get to decide what is good for other people even though you are so trendy and left wing. (FWIW I've been marxist-adjacent since the 70s, i balance out your mum)

How do you know that person was a trans woman? What you really mean is you saw a man go to use the women's facilities. And you're ok with that. But other women aren't so don't speak for them.

@MargotBamborough

i am clear that we need proper diagnosis and not self identification

i think therefore people need to be on hormone therapy to be fully accepted and to have a full transition plan.

for MTF that means hrt and testosterone blockers.

but I don’t agree with increased discrimination based of what sone idiots do.

So more provision for this and other mental health issues is what people should be pushing for qnd to be blunt therefore everyone who ever voted for this Tory brexit government and now complain has challenges.

Wnhat is happening is that the public are finally realising the truth of, and the extent of, what has been going on for the last 10 years or so. The discussion could only be suppressed for so long; and it was inevitable the media would eventually get wind of it.

Why? What difference would it make? No one is checking your gender dysphoria diagnosis or gender recognition certificate at the toilet door.

@Billi80 , so you could tell the person was trans then? Tell me what was so distinctive about them that made you think 'oh that person is trans'?
And ,does it not occur to you , that many people will know that the person isn't female and will object to them using female only spaces but won't say so because they know abuse will follow?

Honestly - how old are you?

Oh and by the way @Talltall, if this Tory Brexit government doesn't get voted out at the next election it will be because of this issue.

Because of people like me who have wanted them out for years but now find ourselves unable to vote Labour, Lib Dem or Green due to their anti-women stance.

It will be the fault of the political left for leaving the goal wide open while they sit at the opposite end of the pitch wearing rainbow lanyards and pronoun badges and talking about how vulnerable trans people are.

The issue of males in women's sports has woken up a lot of people. I think most people used to imagine a long transitioned, 'fully re-assigned' transsexual when the new term 'transgender' was floated. They didn't perceive or understand what transgender now really means and implies.

They were also oblivious to the fact that children have been given puberty blockers and young women had their breasts removed - in pursuit of an illusion. Not so much now.

Also there are so many more ,quite obviously so, 'trans' presenting people around. More people are bound to have seen someone who is obviously one sex presenting in the streotypical ways of the opposite sex.

This post is a thing of beauty. You are here on a thread telling us all about transphobia when you are posting it, right here.

According to you or so it seems, those trans people who have committed sex crimes and violent crimes are not real trans? Have I read your post correctly?

That those male individuals say the magic words (maybe to a clinician who doesn’t explore just affirms and signs off as per your model) and are held above all safeguarding protocols until they commit a very male aligned crime - then according to you, they were never trans in the first place. Just an imposter abusing the system.

Have I got that correct?

You don’t understand safeguarding at all.

In your view, there is a special group of male people who are above safeguarding protocols. You are here on this thread spreading misinformation and harm. Please stop.

Yes @RebelliousCow. My brother is sports mad and his heroine is Jessica Ennis. He was outraged about Laurel Hubbard in the Tokyo Olympics and then I said, "You're not wrong, but why is this more of an issue than male sex offenders being housed in women's prisons or female rape survivors not having access to single sex rape crisis support?"

It also helps that he is a huge JK Rowling fan and wasn't going to just believe all the mudslinging about another one of his heroines without seeing what as going on first.

So he was already fully peaked before the Isla Bryson story broke and started cautiously expressing his opinion around that time.

To be fair, I don’t think Billi80 was trying speak for other people.

I think what Billi80 was doing was adopting the classic tactic we see on here and elsewhere of trying to award the moral high ground to male supremacism by painting themself as cool and reasonable (we both got on with our lunch) and by painting the person who disagreed with them as not worth listening to because: old (mum), not an independent thinker (influenced by the media) and uncool (very right wing). Without of course providing a definition of ‘very right wing’ - by which they could mean absolutely anything.

Billi80 then followed that up with denigrating language “a bunch of terfs” (dehumanising) and “echo chamber” (implying posters are not exposed to counter arguments).

And finally of course we get the “it’s the right wing media” excuse for any difficulty their side has with convincing the general population that humans can in fact change sex and that any male who says he feels womanly should be able to hang out with their daughters in the changing rooms after swimming. Completely ignoring that the BBC is fully on board with this male supremacist agenda and has been relentlessly pushing it for at least seven years.

The disadvantage for those who write off those who disagree with them as stupid, uninformed, irrelevant, and not worth listening to is that it leads to lazy thinking on their part.

In contrast, this so called ‘echo chamber’ has spent years reading and analysing the arguments deployed by the male sexual entitlement campaigners who show up regularly to insult, troll, and very occasionally to actually engage.

Regarding this discrimination you keep speaking about.

Do you believe that an adult male who has a penis should have the right to be naked in a female single sex space with a girl?

Yes or no?

Good. More sunlight, the better, so people have all the information and can draw their own conclusions. Transwomen are male, it isn’t transphobia or hate to understand the truth.

But how in the name of FUCK (sorry) do people who support male rapists being locked up with vulnerable women, female rape survivors not being allowed to access single sex support or even set it up themselves, violent balaclava clad activists assaulting women at peaceful women's rights demonstrations, male athletes taking sporting opportunities and victories from female athletes, and children being sterilised before they're even legally old enough to have sex, think they have the moral high ground?

The issue of males in women's sports has woken up a lot of people. I think most people used to imagine a long transitioned, 'fully re-assigned' transsexual when the new term 'transgender' was floated. They didn't perceive or understand what transgender now really means and implies.

yep, i think they were imagining someone who looks like Blaire White, but they get Lia Thomas and Laurel Hubbard instead

Do you realise that what you have said is very transphobic? Anyone who says they are trans is trans, no debate. No need for medication, surgery, any kind of diagnosis or professional involvement. You might think that the definition of trans involves hormones and a transition plan, but that's not the definition being used in public policy. Because there is no definition, other than self ID.

And we are not talking about 'some idiots', the aggressive misogyny in the TRA movement is a feature, not a bug.

Also, please define 'increased discrimination '. What discrimination do trans people face, and is there any evidence it has increased? Because people not letting you do whatever you want to do, ignoring the effect on anyone else, isn't discrimination. People refusing to go along with your fantasies, isn't discrimination. Other people having wishes, needs and boundaries, isn't discrimination.

Excellent. Let’s start. Please post what a gender dysphoria diagnosis would be based on.

Please provide a definition for gender versus sex.

And please provide the distinction between a gender non-conforming person of either sex and gender dysphoria.

You are very vocal about there having to be a diagnosis. Who sets those guidelines? Trans people as they have now via WPATH?

Again, tell us whether you think any male adult with a penis should have the right to be naked in a communal changing room with girls and women who might be traumatised at seeing that penis in a space where those women and girls are also naked. Please be very clear here. Because this is about that discrimination you keep mentioning.

It beats me @MargotBamborough.

Presumably that’s the point of the lazy “it’s all the right wing media” and “you can only be opposed to this if you are far right or have been hoodwinked by the far right”, to make sure they keep singing from their tribe’s current songbook and don’t do any thinking for themselves. Also none of that stuff gets covered in the media that they consume. So they are in their own little echo chamber.

edited:
Plus not realising how much they have internalised male supremacism and misogyny themselves. I’m not being superior with that last comment: we are all affected by the world we live in, which fundamentally believes that women don’t count in the way that men do.

People who pretend you can change sex and use that as an excuse to obliterate female spaces are the bigots.

I don’t agree that in legal terms you should be able to switch genders without some safe guarding in place. The safe guarding mechanism is there to protect the person considering their identity. They need a rigorous and robust system to support their decisions. This should not be considered before the age of 18.

If you make any form of non compliance a form of phobia - no wonder the rates are rocketing. Holding to this type of perspective is to be inhabiting an alternative, idealised reality - not the real one. In the real one sex exists, is real, has implications ( especially for women and girls). Once cannot change sex, no matter how one presents. There's no obvious harm in presenting in streotypical ways associated with the opposite sex - it is just that's not the issue - is it?

The issue is reality denial, and the suppression of people's instincts and their needs for the privacy and dignity of their sex in certain situations. Perhaps you have yet to recognise this - but be assured one day you will ( certainly if you are female).

Your other post covered very good points

.choosen would then mean preregistered by having attended prenatal appointments

They also exclided both dead babies from the sex list

And chestfeeding will they as a medical organisation allow a male to feed a baby on a ward?

So to be following billi’s contribution, the left wing media gives balanced coverage of all this and there are teams of well written and balanced articles about the conflict of rights here?

Please billi, can you provide links to those left wing media outlets giving balanced coverage on this?

We have asked for this previously and what have we seen?

Crickets. Tumbleweed.

I think you are so deeply entrenched in being a good left wing person working with politicians that you have lost sight of any balance. Your derogations and denigrations on this thread is simply repeated trope that shows you have nothing else to contribute but repeating these as if they are clever comebacks.

Right, but what about safeguarding for the rest of society who doesn't identify as trans?

I absolutely agree with you that young people struggling with their gender identity should be given rigorous support, that their issues should be fully explored, and that they shouldn't be allowed to make any major changes until they are adults.

But I think the gender recognition certificate thing is a red herring.

Either you don't let any male born people into women's spaces regardless of whether they have a diagnosis or a gender recognition certificate or not. Or you let them all in. There is no mechanism for allowing the one but not the other. The only thing keeping (most) men out of women's spaces at this point is (most) men's respect for social norms.