Worrying Increase in Transphobia

[PorcelinaV]

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/09/09/transphobia-uk-press-media-negative-coverage/

An increase in transphobic sentiment among the British public has been fuelled by hostile coverage of trans people from the right-wing press, argues data journalist Ell Folan....

Unfortunately, newspapers still have a great deal of influence on the public and political agenda in Britain, and nowhere is this more obvious than in how perceptions of trans rights have changed.

As recently as Feburary 2021, an absolute majority of British voters (51 per cent) agreed with the statement “a transgender woman is a woman”, including 6 in 10 women. Just 34 per cent disagreed. But after years of negative coverage from the press, those numbers have changed.

In April this year, only 33 per cent of voters agreed that trans women are women, with 47 per cent disagreeing....

It is clear that the media plays an important role in shaping public perceptions, and unless their negative coverage is corrected and refuted, public opinion will continue to worsen.

"In my view your perspective is the problem. Not trans folk at all."

Out of curiosity, why is it only trans people who are folk and community? Why do you trans ideology promoters never talk about women folk or the female community?

It feels like perception management à la "They are just... folk. Who wouldn't love and accept just some harmless folk?"

I think we will look back on these times and shudder.

We are all people, treat each other as people, individuals, but embracing, promoting and facililitating people who have mental health problems is wrong for many reasons. It is unsafe.

Personally, I dont care what you wear, where or what you like to stick where in your own home or what you want to be called, it doesnt effect me i dont have any issues with it at all - you be you, ill be me.

I do object to being forced by society to have to pretent your something you are not and cannot be - I shouldnt have to share or endorce your delusional disorder.

I also object to exposing children to this in the name of inclusion and its normalisation.

I cannot believe I am having to say this, again, but still fucking Spartacus.

Trans folk make up a teeny percentage of the population but they are so bloody noisy.

Yep, the legal fiction allowed by the GRA/GRC still has specific exemptions -

• A group counselling session is provided for female victims of sexual assault. The organisers do not allow transsexual people to attend as they judge that the clients who attend the group session are unlikely to do so if a male-to-female transsexual person was also there. This would be lawful.

From - www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

• A counsellor working with victims of rape might have to be a woman and not a transsexual person, even if she has a Gender Recognition Certificate, in order to avoid causing them further distress.

From - www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/26/1

And as an interesting side note, in regards to male line primogeniture, the Equality Act 2010 made a specific exemption to make sure that males, even those with a GRC, inherit before their sisters -

lordslibrary.parliament.uk/women-hereditary-peerages-and-gender-inequality-in-the-line-of-succession/#heading-4

And as Eresh says, many of the people being referred to are not 'legally female' in any case, having not sought a GRC.

@terryleather

"Genderism is a male supremacist movement - it centres males and their wants and desires under the guise of a civil rights movement and plenty have fallen for it. And the apparent ease with which almost all institutions have caved to it shows how fragile women's rights actually are."

Well done - wish I'd thought of putting it that way.

@Thatladdo

people used the say that about people of other races and people used to say that about gay people. people used to say that about the Irish in England. The southern during about the northern ditch and so on and so forth.

No they didnt.

Facilitating mental health problems?

Normalising things that are not scientific fact was usualy reserved for Santa and the toothfairy!

Sounds like you have gotten mixed up

The other issue is that despite these exemptions women are still being denied access to single sex spaces for those purposes

The law isn’t strong enough for us to get single sex spaces

When someone claims that 'no man would pretend to be trans in order to access women and girls' it shows staggering ignorance about male pattern violence.

We know that men like Isla Bryson and Karen White have already done this. Bryson had already been charged with rape, but all he had to do was don a cheap wig and pink leggings and he got onto a beauty therapy course where teenage girls were stripping naked in front of him.

We know that some predatory men train for years to be teachers, social workers or priests just because it gives them more opportunity to be with potential victims. It's not just a hobby for these men, it's their all-consuming passion.

How can anyone be so closed-minded that they refuse to believe some men will pretend to be trans for nefarious reasons? History has proven that if there's any safeguarding loophole then some bad men will exploit it.

Male people are responsible for around 99% of sex crimes. The problem is male violence, not the women who are brave enough to speak out against it. There's nothing kind about pretending that men (however they identify) are the same as women. Men (however they identify) are more dangerous than women, and that's why we have single sex spaces.

Ignoring the facts just puts women and girls at risk.

Come again?

It was an attempt at humour / pointing out that any voice of a concession is transphobic, oh well. I'll go and be my TERFY self somewhere else.

Yep. Stonewall law has led organisations to either actively or naively disregard the single sex exemptions which are allowed by law.

Take as an example rape crisis services. They are absolutely able to offer single sex provisions. The fact they choose not to is a disgrace.

The law also does not yet recognise the extreme bullying, harassment and behaviour inflicted upon any group or venue that tries to provide female people with a female only group. Rape survivors for example.

It is going to have to. It's very unpleasant to have to face, but this political movement has a very nasty side, and absolute intolerance to female people having needs that present boundaries for TQ+ male people. Regardless of the female people's needs.

As this thread has demonstrated, empathy, compassion or equality for women is not a feature. You get a whole lot of trying to debate that those women's needs don't matter/aren't real anyway/the women should just get over them in a way you never see against male people, particularly TQ male people, and you get flat out gaslighting of pretending not to know or see that those needs exist or those women exist, mixed with a lot of throwing around of guilt and shame that if you were a better kinder person you'd only care about TQ+ male people anyway and the female collateral damage wouldn't be a problem to you.

Another thread running with the op putting up screen shots of venues quoting the law whilst denying access for a single sex rape support group shows we have no single sex places left

Whatever those clauses are meant to be doing they are no where near it

There’s another poster who is a bit much tbf but likes saying nowhere uses the legitimate reason line

Devastatingly they are probably right

We need to change the law to ensure women get single sex spaces

Plus other stuff like stopping indoctrination of dc and male bodies in female sports

This.

and actually, this isn’t a “rise in transphobia” it’s a correction from the wave of misogyny driven by MRA and TRA and totally fucking woke bollocks parallel universe whereby women were being told what they can call themselves in a concerted attempt to demote us to include a totally made up construct

there is no place for men in women’s changing rooms, prisons, sports.

and having Returned from a business trip with unisex toilets, I’m clear that I don’t want to share my toilet with men. I don’t want piss on the floor, I don’t want steaming great man shits.

fuck all to do with a bloke in a frock, I don’t want male biology in a public toilet setting that I have to share.

I'll add to the excellent list of 'what problems are there really' provided above:

women who are remaining at home in violent, dangerous relationships because the refuge services are all mixed sex and they will not go to groups or places or refuges where there are male people because of their trauma. Their trauma is not interested in how the male person says they feel and identify, because the woman's body and mind does not revolve around what a male person decrees. A refuge manager has stated on a radio programme that this will inevitably lead to deaths. No one is checking and measuring women who die because male people insist there can be no female only refuges.

women who are rape victims but unable to access support and care, because the groups have male people identified into them. One MNetter is currently having to go to court for an accessible service: there are three provided by the services, a male one, an LGBTQ one and a women's one. Men can identify freely into all three. Having tried the women's one and been deeply distressed by the behaviour of a male person there, she requested a female only one. This was refused. The group would not even provide one in a separate building, as the existence of a female only group was insulting to male people with TQ+ identities.

Let that sink in for a minute. This is a movement that would honestly, actually, prefer that women died or that women rape victims have no care at all, than a male person has to accept that in addition to all the groups and resources to meet their needs, a female only one exists too.

A woman's death is seen as less awful than a man's being miffed.

Can you see a problem yet?

Here are some more issues that you don’t seem to want to address @Messyhair321

Males exposing themselves to girls

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4292052-Article-about-WiSpa-incident-title-edited-by-MNHQ?page=1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4870071-gym-swimming-changing-issue?reply=128349138

Rape crisis rejection for women wanting female single sex group (in addition to existing inclusive women’s group, a men’s group and an LGBTQ + group)

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4539958-big-update-on-rape-crisis-legal-challenge?page=1

lesbians being cancelled for having female only events

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4870736-lesbian-speed-dating-event-accused-of-transphobia-for-not-allowing-men

Girl guide safeguarding

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4409035-A-trans-Identified-BDSM-fan-gun-nut-is-now-a-senior-leader-at-Girlguiding?page=1

Sports

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4414643-Penn-s-Lia-Thomas-breaks-200-500-Free-records-in-meet-with-Princeton-Cornell?page=1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4836249-champion-swimmer-forced-to-change-in-closet-in-order-to-avoid-changing-in-front-of-transgender-swimmer-unbelievable

@Messyhair321

*If someone is legally female or male that's what they are as far as I'm concerned. You can't then start arguing that they are still a man or woman. Thats my take on it.

And I feel it's a bit far fetched to suggest that someone is going to pretend to be a woman just to use the toilet. This sounds very strange to me, I'd like to see examples of this.

If a person is going to abuse they won't dress up in order to do that, they're going to do it anyway. I don't see hoards of Trans people doing this. It will be the smallest minority as with any sector of society.

I also don't agree at all that you can tell who is trans & not. There are many many traditionally masculine appearing women & effeminate men who someone like you might just assume is trans. I would avoid going down that road if I were you. Because you really can't tell. Unless you look at the feet if trans men, they're usually smaller than they would be for a man. But who the hell goes around looking at feet. And this isn't exactly science anyway because there's loads of men with small feet*

Firstly, if you genuinely cannot tell a transwoman and a woman apart then you need a visit to Specsavers.

Secondly, you have dismissed the question of safety in women's toilets. Where do you stand on privacy and dignity? Are you comfortable dealing with the consequences of a period protection disaster at one basin while a transwoman washes their hands at the next one?

Agreed.

My apologies @WhiteFire - I misinterpreted.

@Thatladdo

yes they did.
I guess that worried you, the parrallel!

I can assure you I was not and am not worried about holding my personal opinion.
I dont need to justify it or argue for it, its commonly held with the vast, largly silent majority
🙂

People used to say that being gay or Irish was a mental health problem? What??

Another one for @Messyhair321 - women of faith who require single sex provision to access pools, gyms, recreational activities, as well as all the usual spaces for healthcare and changing rooms.

Since council's policy changed to allow self-id transwomen to women only sessions, many Muslim and orthodox Jewish women have stopped coming. Those women are being excluded because transwomen insisted on using the women-only sessions rather than open sessions.

Religious belief is a protected characteristic under law.

Sorry, what? The discussion is about the supposed decrease in tolerance of trans people. I gave my opinions about why that might be.

I don’t know for sure what you’re talking about in your haiku, but if it’s self ID, then there are loads of people labelling themselves ‘trans’ without a diagnosis and without dysphoria. That was my point.

I'll add that those single sex swims and gym sessions were intentionally planned for and created, due to a number of concerns. The exclusion of those women from society, from accessible health and sport, from communities, community cohesion and equalities, health inequalities and risks, I sat in meetings about all this twenty years ago. Those opportunities were created to aid and address those issues for women.

Now the women those opportunities were created for are once more excluded. Because it is more important that male people can identify into and be validated as a woman, regardless of whether this destroys the purpose of the resource for women or the access for women. And because groups have been made afraid to use the single sex exceptions.

The Hampstead Ponds situation sums this up in a nutshell.

Three ponds: mens, womens, mixed sex, happily used for decades by all. The women's pool was often used in particular by local Orthodox Jewish women.

Now, based on pressure from TQ+ male people and the political lobby behind them: male people have three pools they can use. Men only, mixed sex, or the women's. Any male person who enters the women's pool has to go unquestioned; the act of going there declares self identity. Women have been warned not to protest this. The Orthodox Jewish women can no longer use any of the Hampstead pools at all.

It does not work the other way: some women to prove a point intentionally went into the men's pool, stating that they identified as men - some had even changed their documentation to reflect their identity. The men not only protested and failed to accept their self identity; they called the police and the women were immediately removed.

This is sexism on crack. I have no problem at all with accessible provisions for trans people, but I am not accepting male supremacism as the price of it. Nor a group of male people, regardless of their identity choices, who see their wishes and wants and feelings as entitling them to destroy access for women, and who want to 'live their best life' by preventing women from living public life at all.