New sports club at DC’s high school only open to LGBTQ+ pupils and their allies

[SirChenjins]

Are they legally allowed to exclude GC pupils? Or pupils who are not one of the special alphabet children?

This is a really great club - nothing like the school has offered before. Seems a shame to limit attendance based on sexuality/gender ideology rather than interest/ability.

We’re in Scotland if that makes a difference.

I know, it was funny watching it fall!

Oh dear

So have you been to the school then and raised your concerns?
As you still haven't said, despite your attempts to deflect and pretend you have

He can attend the club as an ally of GC LGB people. Job done.

At a school in Scotland? Not openly he can't.

(There are GC T people too, btw.)

LGBTQ .... It's fairly meaningless really.

And what are the implications of joining a club with "fairly meaningless" entry requirements? Very hard to challenge an authority who decides you don't fit. They may have their own notion of what "allyship" requires.

I wouldn't interpret someone attending that club as someone fully signing up to gender ideology.

Nor would I, people attend for all sorts of reasons. But I would interpret it to mean that it's unwise for anyone attending to expresses any doubts about that ideology. That may change if gender ideology loosens its grip, but at present L, or G, or B, or T, might include GC, but "LGBT and allies" doesn't. That's the label for "not GC".

See my previous posts.

I’m intrigued though - what are your thoughts on the OP and the issues raised throughout the thread? I don’t think you’ve addressed them.

Yes @AmaryllisNightAndDay.

500 odd posts in and you've finally identified the issue.

This club is for anyone who isn't gender critical.

Being gender critical has been expressly acknowledged in a court of law as being a protected belief, worthy of respect in a democratic society.

You wouldn't be allowed to have a club for "any students who are not Christian" or "any students who are not Muslim". You most certainly wouldn't be allowed to have a club for "any students who are not trans or non binary".

So why is it OK to have a club for "any students who are not gender critical", which is what this club actually is?

Point to me where I pretended I had*

Here you go
awaits comprehension jibe remark again instead of actually answering

SirChenjins taken your concerns to the school yet?

And you’re back…still asking the same old question that’s been answered and still refusing to answer the many put to you

If I can’t go somewhere in my LGB Alliance T-shirt and expect to be safe and welcome, that place is not LGB friendly. Whatever it calls itself.

The fact you won't say just implies that no you haven't been to the school to raise your concerns, you just wanted to come here to have a moan in what you thought was a like minded space about special alphabet children (your words) instead

That quote doesn’t show that.

And the other question I asked you?

Can’t believe someone has been stinking up the thread for nine pages moaning about a variant on the well-known phrase “alphabet people.”

I’m really not bothered what you think.

Now, care to address the OP and other points raised? Or you could start with the most recent one posted by @AmaryllisNightAndDay @MargotBamborough and @EmpressaurusOfCats if you can’t be bothered to read the whole thread.

This club is for anyone who isn't gender critical
Well yes, that makes sense as it's for LGBT people - a better analogy than the Christian /Muslim one would be not wanting anyone with homophobic views attending as it could be problematic
Plus the "I can hold my beliefs" yes you can, but not to use them to potentially discriminate

But being gender critical isn't equivalent to being homophobic.

It's a belief worthy of respect in a democratic society.

It is a protected belief under the Equality Act.

Can you think of any other protected characteristic under the Equality Act which can form the basis of your exclusion from a completely unrelated activity in a state school in the UK?

Not to mention the fact that this group is overtly using its own beliefs to discriminate. Against gender critical students.

I feel sorry for the kids having to put up with ignorant teachers who think TQ+ has anything to do with being gay or bisexual. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Tell me that you don't understand discrimination without telling me that you don't understand discrimination.

If I can’t go somewhere in my LGB Alliance T-shirt and expect to be safe and welcome, that place is not LGB friendly. Whatever it calls itself
Why would you want to go to an LGBT inclusive space wearing a tshirt that actively excludes one?
It'd be like going to it in a GBT tshirt and then all the lesbians going "I'm not included 😭) and me going but I'm GBT friendly, why am I not included?
I just don't agree with the ideology of the L!"
Then taking exception when I'd be (rightly!) not welcome.

You've just carefully explained that 'LGBT' actually means only T. Why would T feel excluded by same sex orientation? They could just look the other way and say 'that person is not interested in dating me'.

If I want to join the ping pong club I want it to be inclusive of everyone.

I don't think a school should be supporting a ping pong club which excludes students with gender critical beliefs any more than it should support a ping pong club which excludes trans and non binary students.

A big part of the purpose of school, particularly extra curricular activities, is to prepare students for the real world. In the real world, people with gender critical beliefs are going to have to live and work alongside trans and non binary people, and trans and non binary people are going to have to live and work alongside people who do not believe that humans can change sex or that gender identity is a relevant consideration when it comes to access to single sex spaces or competitive sports.

In the real world those people are going to have to rub shoulders and be civil to each other despite their differences, so they might as well start doing that in ping pong club.

It's not acceptable to discriminate against students who do not believe in gender ideology.

In the real world, people with gender critical beliefs are going to have to live and work alongside trans and non binary people, and trans and non binary people are going to have to live and work alongside people who do not believe that humans can change sex or that gender identity is a relevant consideration when it comes to access to single sex spaces or competitive sports.
In the real world, lesbians and gay people are also going to come across people with homophobic views towards them.
Why should LGBT groups like this one not exist or be seen as a concern just for existing, just because someone holds homophobic or transphobic views against one of the letters?

It's not acceptable to discriminate against students who do not believe in gender ideology
Using that logic it's not acceptable to discriminate against people who do not believe in "gay ideology."

What is 'gay ideology'? Do you mean the fact that gay people are same sex attracted, not same gender attracted?

There's no such thing as "gay ideology".

Being gay means you are sexualltly attracted to people of the same sex as yourself. It isn't a theory. It is self evident.

Gender identity is nothing more than a theory, or an idea. It is the belief that everyone has a gender identity, and that most people have a gender identity which matches their biological sex, whereas some people have a gender identity which conflicts with their biological sex, and that it is your gender identity and not your biological sex which determines whether you are a man, a woman or something else. It is the belief that being a man or a woman is something metaphysical, rather than biological. It is absolutely an ideology.

And it is an ideology which always, always, in its application, benefits those born male at the expense of those born female. When it comes to single sex spaces, sports, language, all of it confers an advantage on those born male and a disadvantage on those born female, regardless of what anyone calls themselves or how they identify or what pronouns they prefer. That's why an increasing number of people reject it.

So no, it is not similar to being gay in any way.

Being gay is a fact.

Gender identity is a belief system.

They are not the same.

There are 21 pages going through all this if you can be bothered to read it.