The gender war is over in Britain apparently

[CatMattress]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/uk-trans-rights-labour-party/674944/

Seen on reddit. Haven't seen any discussion on MN so apologies if I missed this being posted. Labour have dropped self ID? When? I feel so out of the loop (I blame the summer holidays. Hell on wheels, my god. I can't remember the last time I had a pee without being interrupted never mind read the news)

Well, they haven't really.

Labour are just talking out of both sides of their mouth, again.

Not over. Labour have dropped self ID but will make getting a GRC really easy for anyone. Labour have not committed to saying that women means biological women only. It's just an attempt to win votes back from the women they've previously shat on.

Self ID was quietly dropped a month or so back. The article describes what's happened quite well - worth a read.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/24/labour-will-lead-on-reform-of-transgender-rights-and-we-wont-take-lectures-from-the-divisive-tories the article from Annaliese Dodds. I think its massive. Spelling out that sex and gender are different, and that the Equality Act says as much- after years of obfuscation from everyone (not just labour). About fucking time, obvs, but very welcome. ^^

Obviously the Tories have shat on women in myriad ways and for countless reasons, including exploiting this whole issue for their own ends.
GC, but always find these discussions depressing.

Thanks for posting this. Certainly this paragraph seems unambiguous and encouraging
"need to recognise that sex and gender are different – as the Equality Act does. We will make sure that nothing in our modernised gender recognition process would override the single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act. Put simply, this means that there will always be places where it is reasonable for biological women only to have access. Labour will defend those spaces, providing legal clarity for the providers of single-sex services"

Don't trust Labour (yet) on this. Long way to go before I do

Yes, I find the thought of an imminent Labour government enormously depressing, and frankly frightening.

Life long left winger. I don't trust them an inch.

They have betrayed us over and over. I don't know if I'll ever be able to unsee the misogyny this issue has revealed within the left.

It was dropped 'quietly' because once you examine it, and ask some questions, not much has really changed - apart from the principle of not having to have a doctor sign it off. The Labour party has not changed its mind-set or commitment at all. The reason it was kept quiet was to avoid scrutiny. If it ws really such a big and fundamental change it would have been widely advertised and talked about non stop.

It's going to take a long time for me to trust Labour again. But to be honest, I have stopped trusting politicians, regardless of the colour of their badge.

Also, I think Wes Streeting and other loud TRA Labour activists ( Ben Bradshaw ever more vocal, Nadia Whittome etc) will be surprised to hear they no longer subscribe to gender ideology. And In fact, last week Wes Streeting was telling Scotland that the differences between Scottish and UK Labour were "subtle"

I don't think Labour have any idea how much damage they have done.

I may still end up voting for them next election because I think a hung parliament would be worse. But if I do, I hope it'll be for the last time. I can't imagine ever going back.

I don't trust Labour on this. My local candidate has a 'Trans Ally' text and flag in her bio and refused to meet to discuss gender issues.

I voted Labour 1992-2017. The gender wars have just opened my eyes to the myriad ways the Labour party is institutionally misogynist (sex work is work, liberal crime policies, safeguarding fails, refusal to listen to women and outright sex discrimination e.g. Glasgow, Nottingham, closing down of free speech). Not just self-ID.

And bore off with 'Tories are just as bad / worse for women'. It's so puerile. I'm left wing, I will never vote Tory. I expect Labour to do better than them - but given they are not going to change tax policies, the two child cap, public investment or indeed do anything that will benefit women and families, I'd personally rather have the Tories who do at least allow public discussion and debate among their cabinet on this issue.

I voted Labour 1992-2017. The gender wars have just opened my eyes to the myriad ways the Labour party is institutionally misogynist (sex work is work, liberal crime policies, safeguarding fails, refusal to listen to women and outright sex discrimination e.g. Glasgow, Nottingham, closing down of free speech). Not just self-ID.

All of this. I was raised in a third generation left household. I had always thought the Left was on the Right Side of History. I've been thoroughly disabused of that error in the past few years. It's been immensely uncomfortable and difficult to learn that, but as the saying roughly goes - that which can be destroyed by the truth deserves to be.

Labour will make getting a GRC easier. But no one is allowed to ask to see a GRC anyway so how are people supposed to know who has one and who doesn't?

You'd rather have the tories. What exactly would they have to do to lose your support?

Yes, so boring and puerile to worry about the possibility of another term or hung parliament.

I'm sorry, I know that labour's 'don't scare the horses' lack of policies is disappointing, but the tories are continuing to dismantle everything and hand it to their mates on a daily basis. A decade of disaster capitalism and failed austerity.

Hell yes. I'm disappointed with Labour but another Tory term. I care a lot about the gender issue but people need to put bread on the table and we need to start backtracking on Brexit. We'll be like a developing country if the Tories get another five years. Stay with Labour but keep fighting our corner.

The Tories don't have my support. Can't you read? I said I am a left wing ex-Labour voter who will never vote Tory.

Labour's policy is to continue Brexit, keep to Tory public spending levels and maintain 2 child limit. What am I voting for that is worth giving up women's rights?

This would be the Labour that said they’d toughen LGBTQIA+ “hate crimes” to make them aggravated crimes, when it’s been rightly pointed out by a think tank that this risks stifling and silencing debate? That Labour?

The Labour who said all that didn’t matter because the think tank in question is a right wing one, so therefore beyond the pale and an invalid point of view? That Labour?

Wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them. Leopards don’t change their spots, even if Starmer has realised alienating GC women is a vote loser. They’ll say whatever then revert to misogynist type.

Feeling exactly the same.

No idea what to do in the next election because I can't see myself voting labour, lib dems are a joke and voting tory is something I've never considered.

Sorry, the 'can't you read' comment was rude and unnecessary. Apologies.

Hey, if you're in Scotland at least you can add the SNP to the list of parties you can't vote for! 🙄

But Labour are supportive of Brexit.

Fortunately I don't have that shitshow to add to the list but apologies for missing out the absolute joke that is the green party.

Looks highly likely my ballot will feature a beautiful portrait of a cock and balls... With a note of what sex that belongs to. It really upsets me to waste my vote but I currently see no viable alternative.