Billy Bragg

[FinallyPeakedNow]

Just watched Billy Bragg live. I was cheering along with the political stuff, climate change etc and then he starts with TWAW and I had to leave. Fucksake

What a clown. He has waded into an debate that he knows so little about, yet is berating and attempting to belittle women who know so much more than he does. He has such misplaced confidence in his own understanding and knowledge.

My god, the irony. Which situations do you think extra safeguarding might be needed? For instance, transwomen swimming with me in a public pool?? = fine , welcome and included. Transwomen changing in the female changing rooms not the mens? = not fine, extra safeguarding is needed because I, a female, and getting naked in there. Ditto any public space, wear what you want go where you want , but not spaces and categories that are specifically for women because extra safeguarding is needed.

It's absolutely incredible to me that people can throw themselves into a campaign where one of the main battlegrounds is a novel medical treatment of children, which is known to have life-changing permanent effects, and yet these people make not the slightest effort to check the basic facts. It would take a few minutes to start to see that there is very little research supporting this novel treatment, there are serious question marks about the quality of such research as has been done, and the number of young people and teenagers desisting from treatment and being left with permanent side effects is going up all the time. Aren't they bothered in the slightest by the fact that there isn't a scintilla of evidence that there were huge numbers of 'trans kids' in human history but only in the last few years have they felt able to make themselves known? Or by the near total absence of middle-aged female transitioners? Or the massive over-representation of children and young people on the autistic spectrum, who've been bullied or sexually abused or gone through a family trauma, or have a diagnosed mental health condition like anxiety or depression, leading to self-harm, eating disorders etc before 'gender dysphoria'?

In the case of Bragg, it really has to be a dangerous combination of arrogance and stupidity.

Well, clearly there can't be any issues, or someone non-bigoted and pro-trans would be saying something.

The only people making a fuss are anti-trans bigots.

And you can tell they're anti-trans bigots because no-one apart from anti-trans bigots is making a fuss.

Only an anti-trans bigot would think it's bad, cos all the non-bigots say they're good.

Millionaire male senior citizen William Bragg has ZERO skin in this game, he doesn't care.

I can only learn from my mistakes and move on. I made another grave error on the Saturday as I was watching/dancing to the Melrose Ceilidh band (AWESOME) and thought I'd better go and see what the Oyster Band were like because I'd heard of them.

Went scuttling back after two songs and regretted missing out on melrose for that time. Oyster Band did not say anything at all about trans rights, thank goodness, so I can't say whether or not they've decided to take a stand on this (why the hell are musicians even mentioning it ffs)

Baskery sound exactly what I should have been watching. Still, I got the opportunity to rant at my teenage children about why I thought Billy Bragg was a twat, which might have been worth it for the life lesson.

I am sorry to anyone else having to listen to or discover Billy Bragg's twattery this summer.

Hi! We hadn’t bought tickets as just back from being away. Hope you had a great time.

There is a difference between being an anti trans bigot and and being anti the subset of trans activists positions that remove women's rights , remove the very definition of women , and reduce women to a feeling in the brain

To me the difference is that an anti trans bigot would not want men and women to be able to dress as they want , call themselves what they want. In fact an anti trans bigot tends to be a a mysogenistic as the TRA group - neither are comfortable with strong women who defy gender norms

It's just we defy the norm without denying biology

So I don't think an anti trans bigot is someone who says

No to make bodies in women's sports
No to gender segregation or stereotypes
No to poisoners chemicals in children's bodies to make them look like a different sex ( just accept the children as they are , don't treat then different because of the sex , see point 2 no gender segregation )

( I would accept a grown up discussion on sex segregation ( that's things like toilets and women's shortlists and awards ) in the context of "is it still needed in modern society " although my guess is the answer unfortunately is still yes . When that answer is no then we could talk about womens prisons )

There does seem to be some alarming polarised simplistic thinking - binary thinking from a group of people who reject the binary

Isn't it funny that whilst women are being so attacked by this ideology we tend to avoid sinking the conversation to accusations of bigots and mysogenists but instead try to reason about our position?

And we never get educated as to why we are wrong because of the tendency just to shout bigot at us ( or tell is we don't understand what it feels like to be uncomfortable in your own body which is so bloody rude ) ( we know what you think and feel and you just don't understand us ) ( showing the belief that we know everything and you know nothing )

Nothing new there. Do you recall that 'discussion' he and some guy from Birmingham university had with Julie Bindel and Ayan Hirsi Ali? Two women who absolutely know their stuff inside out and can articulate it with confidence. It was clear neither had bothered to do any research and so had no clue what they were talking about at all.

I remember that. It was embarrassing how badly he came across. Just pure stupidity.

I don't know whether Bragg really thinks children are being put on beta blockers, or whether it was a momentary confusion of terms. Has he come back to clarify?

I notice that he doesn't engage with the issues at all. When people give him x, y and z reasons why puberty blockers are harmful, he doesn't come back and say why he thinks they're beneficial. The most likely explanation seems to me that he hasn't understood the debate at all - that he almost certainly hasn't read the Cass Review, or the concerns of any of the GIDS whistleblowers, or any of the numerous newspaper articles listing the problems with puberty blockers, and certainly none of the medical papers. He has just arrived at a position of complete certainty while in a state of near-total ignorance.

He is showing solidarity for an oppressed, marginalised group.

For the leftist, if that means giving puberty blockers to kids, or supporting lunatic Hamas terrorists...

Billy should be really blushing with embarrassment about his mix-up with beta blockers. If he doesn’t even know what he’s backing, then heaven help him.

Seems there’s a very binary way of thinking with gender ideology activists with no room for anything in between, no questioning allowed.

1. Puberty blockers are 100% safe, let’s give them to gender-confused kids. (Ooh you’re such a great trans ally!)
2. Puberty blockers may be harmful, we need to ensure we’re not hurting children with this treatment. (Shut up, you anti-trans bigot!)

Isn't it funny that whilst women are being so attacked by this ideology we tend to avoid sinking the conversation to accusations of bigots and mysogenists but instead try to reason about our position?

From what I have noticed, the GC side will both give arguments for their position, and also throw back some accusations of "homophobia" and "misogyny".

And I think that's probably the right tactic as long as you are careful in the accusations you make and you believe that they are justified. For example, where lesbians are having a problem even holding a female only lesbian event then the accusation of "homophobia" seems to be fair.

When It comes to tactics against the left, these are people that are convinced that they have the moral high ground. That's their identity, that's what they like to display to the world.

So you want to try to take that away from them and turn the "bigotry" accusation
back against them, where it's fair to do so.

Also good to try to undermine any claim they have to being the rational side, which on this issue, where they just make up stuff like TWAW and refuse to debate...

Owen Jones responding to the misogyny accusation:

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1697985212297130092

"But by presenting solidarity with trans people as misogyny, ‘gender critical’ activists are increasingly arriving an altogether darker conclusion: that gay men are uniquely misogynistic, and that misogyny is linked to the very fact of being gay."

well if the cap fits Little Owen Jones...

I do wonder how much solidarity he has for transmen. Has he been supportive of including them in male-only gay events etc. Has he fuck as like.

It's Man Owen Jones standing in solidarity with other Men, ignoring Women of any flavour except the Male ones. And then crying about it if he gets called a misogynist.

His data graph

cisgender lesbians, male lesbians, gay men and bisexual
cisgender bisexuals and lesbian women and men

Reader I suspect that the researcher may have obtained bias data.
I have no idea where that idea came from, its just a suspicion.

[ He is one of the homosexual blokes who are trans(man)phobic so misogyny for the gyny🤷🏼 ]

I suspect that he will not be organising to protesting male only gay clubs insisting that they let straight women in too.

Except that not all gay men subscribe to gender ideology - and they actually have some respect for female integrity.

He started off talking about "trans rights" and then used a poll for something different: how people feel towards trans people.

Also how many GC women are actually making an argument like that?

"Gay people are supporting trans rights at such a level, so they must all be motivated by misogyny"

The first thing I would guess, is that higher levels of support would come naturally from them tending to be more liberal, and tending to identify with the LGBT movement.

Standard lack of logic in OJ's arguments. Just like BB, in fact.

It's all about what "seems to be associated" with what. There is no logical link between thinking sex is (and sex-based protections are) important and thinking "gay men are misogynists". Just as there's no logical link between the former and "being a fascist"/"being a right wing bigot" etc etc. It's all about who people (allegedly) share opinions with, and vague, hand-waving association. BB says he's right because he "doesn't want to share an opinion with Douglas Murray", that "if you don't support trans stuff you're going to end up anti-abortion", etc etc. OJ says, well, what he says in that illogical, associative thread. It's all they've got. Still no real debate.
It's all so tiring.

What the actual fuck is Owen smoking?

Obvious points:

1. Lots of lesbians are concerned about gender ideology.
2. As indeed are lots of gay men.
3. Lots of heterosexuals are sympathetic to gender ideology.

He is making no sense. As per usual.

Its always a bait and switch.

Some male gay people are saying transmen are not men for dating and transwomen are not women when they need a broody lesbian.

Its always amusing to see the bros bros bros no hoes gay male person argue that he should have a single sex male space but his female counterpart should have to allow heterosexual males in her space.

Gosh. The responses on that are not at all what I'd expected.

I'd go so far as to say that is a 'ratio'.

I particularly liked this reply from the magnificent James Dreyfus. He appends the two attached images, which do indeed seem a bit contradictory. ihttps://twitter.com/DreyfusJames/status/1698375520725909956?s=20

J. Dreyfus Esq & Master Hobbes (blue tick each)@DreyfusJames
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19hOh NO!

Now I don’t know WHAT to do.

I’m so torn.

Can somebody please validate & affirm me quickly before I’m FORCED to sit in my neighbour’s car & record (then edit, add cat’s ears & post) a spontaneously tearful TikTok video?

Owen! Help! Am I a homosexualist AND a bigot??