Roisin Murphy

[WarriorN]

Is it true? Did did say this?

"Puberty blockers ARE FUCKED! Big pharma laughing all the way to the bank!"

David Bowie was stating Britain needed a fascist leader and Hitler was the 1st rock star but everyone loves him now

@Raggammuffin

The idea of 'approval' is at the core of why certain people appeal to the authorities, to validate them. Those authorities sense 'a good little deal here' and oblige...

Hence this situation of flying courts martial on the internet. As observed with most approaches of their ilk, they have a characteristic line in indoctrination and violence against women.

It's time to de-couple the small number of people at the black heart of that ideology, its victims, from the authoritarian, predatory, bandwagon jumpers who sense an opportunity to play self-serving games with humanity.

@Lalgarh

Someone thinks he saw all this coming..

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/07/23/how-david-bowie-predicted-the-trans-movement/

The equitable public are already doing this decoupling.

They choose when to cancel (Gary Glitter), and when not to (JKR, Róisín).

Some are caught in an intolerable dilemma (Glinner totally at mercy of the industry who keep their jackboot on his neck).

The cancel crazy blue hairs and older shrills cannot stand it when they're Maoist behaviour online not only can't cancel JKR and Róisín, but in fact has zero effect, indeed may have the opposite.

The industrial amount of energy expended online to crush JKR, and her Hogwarts Legacy and Strike stuff just breaks all sales records.

Róisín, what a prize she could have been, but her album cleaning up and gigs sold out.

I can only imagine the collective fury in TRA/ally world.

Ah cuddles! I hate that duck...

We really are back to a time of public hangings, witch trials and kangaroo courts via the internet. Basically mostly led by men's rights agendas.

And oldie but a goodie:

@Lalgarh TBF Bowie was coked off his tits at the time he said all that stuff.

Eric Clapton's onstage rants and basically saying Enoch was right led to the formation of Rock Against Racism.

Towards the end of 1984, we find out that the Inner Party elite self-perpetuates by selecting its own successors. The selection criterion is loyalty to Party ideology. Dissent within the Inner and Outer Parties was crushed with brainwashing.

What we see with privately-educated "rich kid" trans zealots is loyalty to Party ideology and the crushing of dissent. But why? Increased social mobility has allowed working-class people, especially working-class women, to "make good" and compete with rich kids for the top-end jobs. This reduces the value of that pricey private education. If only there was a way to freeze those pesky working-class plebs out from those top-end jobs? Gender ideology provides such mechanism.

Rich women can afford to pay for services that working-class women cannot afford, such as private counselling after a rape instead having to go to Rape Crisis group therapy, or membership of a posh gym with single-occupant changing rooms instead of the council gym with open changing rooms. So rich women aren't much adversely affected by the abolition of single-sex services because they can pay to not need them, whilst working-class women lose out if these services are abolished, making us less competitive for the top jobs because multiple aspects of our lives are made harder, reducing the mental capacity we can devote to studying, interview coaching, working, etc. And if we fight for single-sex services, we get branded transphobic and cancelled so we get blacklisted for said top jobs. Hence, rich women can net benefit from the loss of single-sex services because what they lose is more than compensated for by what they gain through keeping working-class women down.

That's a very interesting take. Its intrigued me, actually horrified more like, that women have been so prepared to absolutely sacrifice their sisters.

But, luxury beliefs, and a caste system, absolutely means that upwardly mobile women must set themselves apart to cement their "high worth" status within the group.

Trans liberation theology fits the bill.

The age old irony...it's still men who call the shots, these upper echelon females are still dependent on the male power structure. They still do what they're told. But it never felt more righteous to let trans identifiers in, and keep working class women out.

you can't turn up to work, let alone teach kids, in a Z Cups bra, nipples showing

If you were actually female and actually had Z cup breasts, you'd have no other choice. Pedantry, I know, but I don't want justified criticism of Kayla Lemieux's fetishistic parodying of women being used to punish actual women just because they have the misfortune to need to shop at Bravissimo or even need custom bras.

I should have said, in a fake set. I'm really trying to forget that charlatan.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia

Childcare surely ?

When we're looking at financial penalties ?

I would love to see a TG person write an article to say This Is Not The Person I Appreciate about criticisms of Roisin, in a kind of 'I love her for her ways, great fashion, but I understand she is a mum and that's getting into a realm beyond my capabilities. But great fashion, anyway'

Might never happen.

Oh well, moving on there's a reason I wrote my Manifesto (!) that way - it allows anyone and everyone, of all walks of life, to support the arts. Now our friend Brendan O' Neill and other men might miss certain key details, when it comes to writing that article, the real killer, the Germaine Greer special, that settles this question for good.

There's something about Laura Snipe's article that has really riled people on here and I can't help but think that we've found the key that'll blow this crap wide open.

I can't think of how the loss of single-sex services would affect child care access.

I'm more thinking things like thin women are hired preferentially over fat women, so rich woman with membership of private gym with individual changing rooms has an advantage over poor woman going to the council gym with open changing rooms in the first place, then poor woman stops going to the council gym full stop because the open changing rooms now have intact males in. Or rich woman is raped and gets counselling within weeks at private counselor where she can pick a practitioner and be sure to pick one who is female but she'd never admit to that versus Sarah Summers, meaning that rich woman gets to recover enough to function properly in male-dominated job sooner. Or rich woman can buy work clothes at high-end clothes shops with plush private fitting rooms instead of Primark mixed-sex cubicles.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia

Point taken - I suppose Mumsnet should be a women-only space though, for my sins, I came here in search of common sense about our topic of our conversation - at a time when there kind of wasn't any, apart from here.

Even the upper class woman can choose "safe" sex work. Amongst men she knows, and hand picked respectful gentleman. Leaving the street to the lower caste.

You're really onto something here. Maybe men and women are the same underneath it all, prepared to step over whomever is below to get to the top.

Oh, that's a good spot. There's a strong overlap between TWAW and "sex work is work" with TERF and SWERF as the perjoratives used for women who oppose those stances.

And you're right, it's the high class well-heeled courtesans who can use an agency to vet clients pay-to-rapists and keep a solicitor on retainer and charge £400, whilst poorer women are pimped and abused in Holbeck and get a fiver a time.

Vito, this is why I'm here. For these fantastic takes. My substack read last year on TRA being plain ol' MRA really opened my eyes, Helen Joyce's take that the New Atheists capitulated to TRA because they're an alpha boys club more interested in needling GCs with a moral outlook than really looking for truth, and that the elites will never repent their sunk costs, all chime with me. As does your take on castes.

@RealityFan

I'm here to strike a blow against cancel culture, in defence of our chum, here. A more limited mission in some ways but a more wide-ranging one in others.

That';s going to start looking like sexism from me.. But it won't look that way coming from women.

I've fallen foul of the talk guidelines, so aplogies for that - but I suppose that illustrates my point : there's an argument, in support of Roisin and against cancel culture, that everyone can sign up to.. But there'a also a feminist argument to be made - and if I can help in some way, great - but it's not something I can do anything more than support.

Not sure why but I'm currently unable to start a new thread.
I'm putting this one here as it's loosely related to the Roisin Murphy pile-on... in so far as it's a very interesting example of what happens when you are deemed to have said wrong think...

Apologies if there is already a thread on this. I couldn't see one.
It's a very interesting story that's unfolding where Peter Tatchell is now saying that nobody can change their biological sex. Suffice to say, he's getting a pile-on from every direction.

One of the most spectacular ones is a tag-teaming attempt by Sally Hines (mostly) and India Willoughby to explain why they disagree with him.

Given all the opinions he's posted in the past which disagree with this new epiphany, he's going to have quite a game of wack-a-mole on his hands.
He's already been red-flagged (like a TERF would be) on the "official" transgender database of friends and foes, Shinigami Eyes.

🍿🍿🍿🍿

This is pretty significant so probably does warrant its own thread.

https://twitter.com/PeterTatchell/status/1700212446344962252?t=8t4137V9bCLNLyVdIfr7sQ&s=19

It's quite the day when Tatchell is a vague voice of reason.
India is just an endemic motormouth, but Hines is an academic, isn't she.
I would give any course of hers a wide berth.

‘changing your gender identity’ is of course anyone’s right- but does that mean Tatchell is finally sticking up for detransitioned people? Which would be good.
On the basis that most people never have a ‘gender identity’ and so someone ‘changing’ it (rather than acquiring a gender identity in the first place) would included them detransitioning- as well as moving to a new category among the several hundred or whatever it is now?