Should Uterus Transplantation for Transwomen and Transmen Be Subsidized?

[PorcelinaV]

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/should-uterus-transplantation-transwomen-and-transmen-be-subsidized/2023-06

Where's the fetus going to gestate, Loretta? Are you going to keep it in a box?

Uterus implants (they are not replacing an organ, they are adding one that should never be there) have been discussed in great detail on FWR.

Agreed, there have been a number of threads about uterus implants (appropriate term) and transplants.

Transplants for women have already been done and produced children. Good use of medical technology.

iirc, it's the prospect of implants that has given rise to the, "I want a uterus to become pregnant to have an abortion" validation of being a woman meme.

Transwomen lack a trait (the ability to bear children) that may cause them to experience psychological dissonance in a way that undermines their health and well-being. The lack of a uterus also closes off the prospect of gestating a child in a way that is available to women as a class.

My emphasis - I couldn't get past this paragraph- it's looney tunes! Women 'as a class' have a uterus because they are female- women. Transwomen lack a uterus because their physical bodies are male. It sounds like women have deliberately hoarded all the uteruses just to be mean.

Also they should watch Guardians of the Galaxy 3. This is the evil they were fighting - even Marvel thinks this is wrong!

It is not medically possible and unlikely to be. So why ask this question. Is it just to create another thread for people to frothover about trans people.

Jeez, so f-ed up. The world is sick.

The purpose of this paper is not to actually discuss whether they should be subsidised, it is to move the Overton window. It tries to making the starting assumption that uterus implants into males take place. Therefore we must not be draw into the trap of discussing the paper’s question. It is totally unethical implant a uterus into a male, it is unethical to the male and the deceased female - we should not even be contemplating taking body parts from dead individuals purely for ‘validation’ purposes. If that starts then I will remove myself from any donation register and I very much doubt I would be alone.

Of course, they wouldn’t want uteruses from deceased women though even the paper seems to hold back on that.

And that is before you consider the next step of wanting to get pregnant.

Isn't it odd that something off limits for infertile women is suddenly a real possibility when men start demanding it 🙄

No, if this kind of experimentation went ahead, the transwomen would be victims here. Even if they were willing and signed consent, they would be the victims of terrible experimentation IMO.

Exactly. That's why they use the idiotic qualifier "that we know of" in relation to a successful procedure in a male.

It has not happened. They know that, so this wording is being used for another purpose.

There's a good thread on X about this: https://twitter.com/WildfireWhisper/status/1678141758054756354

Ridiculous idea, can't see it happening myself.

I have seen this 'fantasy' from several different male individuals.

I believe we actually had one male poster who even posted this as a fantasy scenario. Never, never doubt the abortion fetish. Many people deny it is out there, but once you see it, you will see it again and again.

Yes, it's deliberately provocative speculation carefully worded to suggest this a feasible scenario with the body parts and recipients all ready to go, and that it's just awaiting some boring final paperwork sign-off somewhere along the line.

Thank you. I was just looking for that experiment to post. It needs to be posted every page for any lurkers who jump onto the thread without reading the thread.

It's is beyond unethical.

It's biologically questionable. Even if a transplanted uterus were not rejected by the host, male bodies are not designed to carry a pregnancy - a male's ligaments do not relax and move to accommodate a growing foetus.

The prospect of medical personnel using drugs to stop transplanted uteruses being rejected by their male hosts, in actuality means experimenting on developing foetuses.

It is grotesque.

I can see any ethics committee voting to allow this.

Apart from anything else, can you imagine the whining! Will somewhere have to start selling maternity dressing gowns of doom?

This is a procedure that shouldn't be carried out.
Considering the long lists for gynae services and lack of medical knowledge in gynaecology in general, uterus implants (even if they are medically safe) are cosmetic procedures on the lines of liposuction or skin removal.

source?

This is the same old story with trans medicine, the medical professional likes to promote this myth that all of their surgery is so advanced, which acts as a promotional tool to get more customers.

How many detransitioners have we seen who talk about botched surgery or very basic surgery (such as sticking a long tube of flesh from the arm on a woman and calling it a "penis")? They all talk about being mis sold.

What this paper is discussing is effectively growing a human infant in a 'bag'. Because that uterus being implanted into a male human has none of the connectivity that a female human has. Some connections to blood supply can be done, sure, but what part of the male body is then working to control building this embryo? Therefore a great deal of the components that an embryo needs to use to build itself must then be injected and it must be from either alternative sources (animal) or synthesised.

The ethical issue is not whether a male should have an implanted uterus, the ethical issue is growing a human in a bag.

Now, in the past, posters have attempted to have me deleted for using this blunt language. However, we need to strip this down to what it really is.

All the ethical discussion is going nowhere. Currently there are rather strict limitations to how long a human embryo can be grown for experimentation purposes before it has to be destroyed. Sure some embryos might be subject to gene alterations etc, there may be some interutero procedures done, but to be grown in a bag from conception to birth??? No, I don't believe it would ever pass the ethical standards panels.

The thought experiment (that should have remained theoretical and then fallen out of favour when reality was pointed out) of 'TWAW and TMAM' was always going to lead to this as the end point. Of course, it was always going to be uterus implants in men rather than testical implants (real ones, not fake ones) in women that was put forward first.

This is what happens when an ideology is detached from reality.

I get that there is obviously a doctor out there who wants to try this probably just because it is medically interesting to them. But should this be the norm NO WAY! I think part of being trans is accepting you’re infertile. Many many many women are infertile and have horrific journeys of trying to have a baby. So I think the research should go more into this! Than transplanting uteruses into men!!

It also worries me what a standard organ donation would look like… I’m on the register but no way would I want to donate my uterus to a man. I’d want my organs to be used for life saving surgery!

I get that there is obviously a doctor out there who wants to try this probably just because it is medically interesting to them.

In 2019 Imperial College in London went so far as to carry out a survey to gauge the potential demand. A male GC ally who had previously been suspended from the Labour Party for identifying as a woman part time applied to do the survey. It's an interesting read, where the proposed surgical procedure is discussed. The research lead also lied to Kellie Jay Keen about the survey when she asked him directly.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3605548-Imperial-College-Womb-Transplant-Survey-Redux

I agree.

When you realise the complication rates with these genital surgeries and how further corrective sugeries are often needed and then you can still end up with an incontinent patient at the end... well, it's really concerning.

My understanding is that urethral lengthening in a neo-phallus is the procedure with the highest complication rate. Although a fistula between a neo-vagina and an anal canal doesn't sound like much fun.

I found it particularly chilling that the research team framed MTF trans people not being able to get pregnant as suffering "absolute uterine factor infertility" as if they had otherwise female reproductive systems.